EU threaten to cut off vaccine supply to the UK 2

[Baileysforchristmas]

As the other thread is full

www.politico.eu/article/commission-proposes-six-week-vaccine-export-ban-amid-fears-of-trade-war/

Nice to hear that Biden could potentially help us out
I am very wary of the idea of Biden even being able to help us out as such.

Am I the only one who cuts open tubes of expensive toiletries to use the last bit?
No you are not the only one

There is opposition to the export ban in the shape of the Netherlands, Belgium and Ireland. So it is possible that an agreement or compromise will come from the meeting.

But the very fact we are even discussing democratic western societies stealing patens, seizing vaccines and over ruling contracts made between other countries and pharmas is to my mind extremely disturbing.

A dangerous precedent may now be set, as a result of this knee jerk, panicked reaction, that will not only cause a huge problem in the vaccine distribution, but will create a chain reaction all over the world and will not be confined to just vaccines.

Member states now need to make a moral stand. It feels like this is a crossroads for the EU - this does feel like a monumental fork in the road for the EU. This is now much bigger than the vaccines. I hope they understand the gravity of the situation, and what is at stake now for the EU's future more than anything else. What kind of EU are they actually going to be post brexit? We are waiting to find out.

@StarCat2020

Nice to hear that Biden could potentially help us out I am very wary of the idea of Biden even being able to help us out as such.

Does anyone have a link to Biden’s take?

Feel stressed this morning. A lot of stress from this whole thing has come from noise from EU over AZ vaccine. The 8% thing had same effect.

Thanks for the explanations about dosage!

What kind of EU are they actually going to be post brexit? We are waiting to find out.

I don’t think we are waiting - I think we already know!

I am very wary of the idea of Biden even being able to help us out as such.

Why, Starcat? I’m by no means a fan of Trump but I do believe that if he was still president, he would help us out and also tell the EU where to stick it. Someone needs to and it doesn’t seem that Boris will.

Interesting piece with Ferguson Walsh on R4 re US approval.

Talked about that it was unusual to so public ally rebuke from another body and it could be down to pharma competition. New data now submitted but it didn’t change much.

Also said AZ have suggested AZ would be reluctant to do at cost for next pandemic due to the constant criticism etc. Great.

No one who’ve brought that about would take responsibility for that outcome either.

I can only find 1 article that says moderna coming from USA.
So no idea if true

Cant see this on times as behind a paywall.
But says eu jumped queue on moderna as we ordered before.
Latest media said its arriving in uk April no idea how many.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/moderna-vaccine-approved-but-eu-jumps-queue-qvgpqkjcw

I don't think it would help if Boris got pugnacious, then it would just look like there are wrongs on all sides. It would also more likely make certain EU dig their heels in and others feel they have to band together. Better to do it all quietly and have the reasonable countries put the picture as it affects EU future interests not just UK.

Biden has a particular interest in the EU not making Russia and China look like the reasonable parties globally. The unseemly grumbling at the media about US as well as UK and the threats to legitimate businesses need to stop, behaving like normal capitalist countries needs to start again.

no I am not writing the EU off just yet. Lets wait and see what happens today.

We have to remember that not all nations agree or want VDL in the job, they are aware of the rot at the top of the commission - and I don't just mean VDL. It has never mattered more than now though - the toxicity and incompetence has now been exposed by covid, we may see some nations making a real stand.
Before brexit they would rely on the UK to do that for them in the past, but now member states will have to put their own heads above the parapet, many of whom most certainly will not agree to the bloc turning into vaccine bandits over night.

Many are measured countries that will be just as appalled as we are about this.
So we have to give them the opportunity to voice their opposition, and to possibly influence the EU to take a better course. The whole premise of the EU commission is based supposedly on equality and consensus.

Also said AZ have suggested AZ would be reluctant to do at cost for next pandemic due to the constant criticism etc. Great.

Thanks, EU.

A real test for the EU today for sure, that will have reverberations for many many years.

Why, Starcat?
I didn't explain that very well.

I didn't mean Biden specifically.

Currently MEPs direct ire at AZ not Johnson so yes agree that his more neutral position atm can be used to advantage (hopefully).

marsha are you feeling stressed about a second dose from Pjizer or a possible delay to the vaccine roll out in the UK? Or general unease as to where this is heading?

Any EU export restriction would also affect Israel according to NYT

www.nytimes.com/2021/03/23/world/europe/eu-curbs-vaccine-exports.html

LongHaul I think first two mostly as more immediate. As long as Pfizer can do second that will help. Then worried about general delay.

no I am not writing the EU off just yet. Lets wait and see what happens today.

I already have - the way they’ve behaved is just awful and there’s no coming back from it. The discussion that’s being had today wouldn’t even be necessary if they hadn’t been so totally inept in the first place.

Sorry if I sound angry. I’m just really upset that there seemed to be an end in sight and now it’s looking increasingly unlikely again... all thanks to the EU!!

Personally I think this refusal to export vaccines at all will be sorted out. I'm angry though that they didn't set up earlier so there are more vaccines in the world to end this sooner. I'm angry at the time and effort they are wasting for so many critical response companies and governments (covax nations included) in risk analysing whatever the fuck the EU will do next, instead of improving the pandemic response. I'm angry at them trashing the reputations of pharmaceutical firms and creating vaccine take-up issues. I'm angry that they will lose European jobs over this in future, however hopeful that the UK will get some there will be net losses. I'm angry that they have increased Russia and China's influence through this idiocy. I think this crisis will be sorted out, but I also think a lot of damage has been done that can't be easily undone.

marsha I think even at this most unreasonable, Pjizer will be able to supply the second dose for people that have already had the first.

The UK have more or less switched entirely to AZ now, so it should not be too difficult to secure the last batches needed to complete the PJizer roll out. Of course this is extremely damaging for Pjizer as well, who must be extremely adverse to not being able to supply the second doses for 90 years old grannies, and therefore putting their lives at risk!
So I think that is unlikely even in the current climate.

In terms of delays here, we do have production here and we are steaming through through the numbers. A small delay is possible, but we have many other vaccines coming on board, so I am personally not worried about a big delay to the roll out.

It would be better if the EU were vaccinating properly in the same way we are, to better protect the continent from mutations, but this was always going to be such a tall order given the sheer population numbers - hence the travel restrictions. EU likes to think it is on par with the US, but they could never hope to vaccinate 100 million in 90 days they simply do not have the infrastructure.

Sorry for the typos!

Many EU countries have more corrective health service infrastructure than the USA. The USA's booking systems are utterly chaotic according to people in at least 6 states who I work with. Lack of pre-planning and vaccine hesitancy are the major issues: some EU countries like Netherlands waited to get the vaccines to start working out distribution, there was no plan. Compared with say Lithuania, who were all set up and have every dose jabbed as soon as it's received.

*collective not corrective!

no Totally understandable, who can possibly blame you? Even if the EU decide not to follow through with the threats, the thought was there - the intention was there, and the hostility they clearly feel towards us can't be packed away again.
We are all painfully of the lengths the EU will now go to, which is not exactly comforting, the crisis has damaged the EU very very badly.

MRex but it is a patchy picture in the EU. Poland threw away millions of jabs because they went out of date before they could be used. Ireland ran out of needles, the list goes on. Although the US have had their problems, they seem to be doing very well and have a huge reservoir of vaccines a their disposal unlike the EU.

Thanks @MRex for expressing how I feel much more articulately than I was able to!

In terms of delays here, we do have production here and we are steaming through through the numbers. A small delay is possible, but we have many other vaccines coming on board, so I am personally not worried about a big delay to the roll out.

I really, really hope you’re right.