Is life never going back to normal?

[JuneMoonstone]

I feel incredibly lucky that I've lived 44 years of a normal life. I am heartbroken at the way life has become. Like so many others, I feel like I am existing, not living. I don't see any point in making plans, I don't feel any hope for the future. I was feeling quite positive about the progress made in the UK with vaccines and seeing the infection rates and death rates lower. However with the news about the rest of Europe going into lockdown due to escalating infection rates, I can't help but feel that we are never going to get out of this bloody mess. I cannot help but believe that we will have to live our lives under constant restrictions forever now because of this virus. Is life really going to be shit from now on? Will I ever be able to, for example, go into a busy pub on a Friday night and watch a live band and have a bloody good time again? Will we have to wear face masks permanently in public places from now on? I get a very strong feeling that this will be the case. It's my daughter I feel for the most. She's just 5 years old. What kind of a life is she going to have?

@RosesAndHellebores
Nope. Every country could opt out and deal with their own vaccine procurement. Majority didn't because they know it's better to vaccinate many countries at the same time and prevent new strains. But for example Hungary decided to go for Sputnik, which isn't even approved by EMA.

@MarshaBradyo

Radio here you go

www.ageuk.org.uk/lambeth/about-us/news/articles/2017/rise-in-excess-deaths-for-elderly-last-winter-likely-due-to-flu/

The highest number of winter deaths since then was seen in 2014/15 when the winter death toll reached almost 44,000 with the peak being attributed to a less effective flu vaccination

Did you think much about it?

Probably not because you hadn’t been subject to a necessary but fear-based SD campaign to keep us apart.

But it’s pretty high and society kept functioning with a few headlines

Just to add to this - a death of someone in 2014/2015 from say cancer or even say a car crash who happened to have had flu at the time would have been recorded as a cancer or a car crash not a flu death, unlike Covid.

S

@GeorgiaMelissa Europe's crucial mistake was not to impose a EU first clause in their contracts as the UK and US governments have done.

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@Thewiseoneincognito - I think you have missed the fact that were it not for Brexit vaccination would be in the hands of Europe for the UK. May I gently direct you towards the shambles that is the European vaccination roll out. Without Brexit we would absolutely be a part of that shambles.[/quote]
My dear, May I gently suggest you look into the EU program to understand how it works before you flutter your bunting at me.

This has only ever been about saving the NHS in the U.K., not saving lives.

Saving lives is just a byproduct of that.

I think we will be living with covid for a long time.

The point about how much death we should accept vs quality of life is a good one, in the long term. Human life has been stifled by these lockdowns with no sign of ending yet

before you flutter your bunting at me

@Arrrrggghh this really sums it up for me today.

Lastly here is Chris Whitty with the same. It’s not my idea, it’s from listening to scientists, it is in contrast to assertion in pp, the scientific position.

Messaging will change though and we won’t have daily figures etc. We’ll have headlines on economic recovery instead and people will move on.

www.nationalhealthexecutive.com/articles/professor-whitty-government-covid-acceptable-risk

Pandemic is a media term.

Bloody hell! No one wonder there are groups who have a low opinion of MN

Our only hope is that the virus mutates to similar to the common cold. Otherwise we’ll be continuously chasing the new variants which will emerge. Brazil is an example- apparently Manaus had reached herd immunity last year but then the P1 variant emerged and this has caused an even more severe outbreak across the country due to reinfections. I fear the same will happen here in the autumn with vaccine resistant variants spreading once we open things up.

@Arrrrggghh

This has only ever been about saving the NHS in the U.K., not saving lives.

Saving lives is just a byproduct of that.

I think we will be living with covid for a long time.

The point about how much death we should accept vs quality of life is a good one, in the long term. Human life has been stifled by these lockdowns with no sign of ending yet

Who would be willing to see how things go if all restrictions were lifted?

Perhaps we need to experience the alternative, perhaps we need to see how many could die or get seriously ill if we were to ‘just live with it’, because right now it’s the bogey man that no one has seen but we all fear in some way.

My worry is the grass isn’t always greener on the other side.

The main thing that's different about this disease is that we aren't used to dying.

In the Spanish Flu pandemic people had just gone through a war which killed a significant proportion of the young men; but more importantly they had all grown up with people dying of polio, measles, pneumonia, lead poisoning, tuberculosis, tetanus... This New Flu was just one more thing on the list.

Yes, they wore masks and panicked for a bit, but then things went back to Normal because Normal involved the distinct possibility of dying before you were forty.

We could go back to Normal within a couple of years if we were willing to accept this.

I really don't think the UK is pursuing Zero Covid at all

I agree - and anyway that was last week's news
This week's panic seems to be about the variants and how - despite the fact they've always existed and always will - we can't possibly allow more into the country or everyone will diiiieeee!!!

At one time it was "Get the vulnerable jabbed and all will be okay", then it was "Everyone must have the jab or ICU will be full of 20-30 year olds" and now it's "But the variants!!" ... and all the time people seem to forget that, at some point, we'll simply have to get on with it

We will always be caught in the ebb and flow of this very serious virus, - the new waves of new variant restrictions and then lifting restrictions again, until the whole world is largely vaccinated and herd immunity kicks in. We should be prepared for that. It’s normal for adults but i personally think it will become normal for our children and they will come to adapt better.
We must now look at the much bigger picture. It’s no longer about ourselves and families, or our country or continent. This is a global pandemic requiring a unified global response.
This is a time when I wish we could be working together with the EU.

I am delighted we have vaccines but to an extent they will delay things. Usual pandemics sweep through and move on. To me this is rather uncharted and we have to wait and see what the vaccines will do longer term.

Stupid blubbering conspiracy theorists here and elsewhere -whining about a natural phenomenon reducing your rights is the ultimate in foolishness. Go ahead, catch it and risk dying - but do refuse treatment if you do.

A change or two in our world is needed. Combatting climate change does mean having less, travelling less, doing less. most parents don't seem to care what world their kids get , sadly.

*not normal for adults

Who would be willing to see how things go if all restrictions were lifted?

I think most people would see this as linked to vaccine rollout.

The loudest and most extreme voices always come to prominence on the internet and in the media. So the “vaccines don’t matter, masks forever, no parties ever again” camp battle it out with the “vaccines aren’t needed, scrap all restrictions today and live with the massive death toll” camp.

In reality, most of the population is in the middle. Willing to go along with lockdowns, but not forever. Not making a big drama about masks, but not planning to wear them until 2078 either. Willing to wait until vaccines are rolled out before getting back to normal, not willing to wait forever.

I suspect at this point you’ll say something like “well it doesn’t matter what people WANT, they will need to accept what HAS to happen.” But that’s not how we decide public health or any other trade-offs in a democracy.

Stupid blubbering conspiracy theorists here and elsewhere -whining about a natural phenomenon reducing your rights is the ultimate in foolishness. Go ahead, catch it and risk dying - but do refuse treatment if you do.

You do realise we have vaccines?

Are you staying locked up forever then in case you catch it? Feel free to do so of course.

RosesAndHellebores thankyou, I hope you enjoy your UK breaks I am also looking forward to my week in a cottage near the forest of Dean in September.

If we'd remained part of the EU there's no way we would have gone our own way wrt vaccine procurement. We would have been pressured into group buying just like the other member states were. As non members we were free to get separate proper contracts without that pressure or EU interference.
And without Brexit, the UK would likely not have invested so much money and effort into the development of AZ in the first place. It's because we knew we'd be on our own.
Still, the vast amount of money the UK has contributed has helped to provide the world with a non profit vaccine that's easily stored and transported. And the UK helped set up the EU supply chain. A thank-you wouldn't go amiss

@Thewiseoneincognito

"Who would be willing to see how things go if all restrictions were lifted?

Perhaps we need to experience the alternative, perhaps we need to see how many could die or get seriously ill if we were to ‘just live with it’, because right now it’s the bogey man that no one has seen but we all fear in some way.

My worry is the grass isn’t always greener on the other side."

Also what Government would be willing to say hey let s give it a go to see what happens if we lift all restrictions.

They would be damned if levels did not rise because people would ask what was the point of the restrictions in the first place and damned if levels did rise leading to higher deaths.

It's an impossible question to answer what would have been the death toll without restrictions but Florida and their lack of restrictions does give some insight:

abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/wireStory/florida-governor-gathers-experts-validate-covid-response-76540590

Life will return to normal, but I think 2021 won’t be normal. It’s too soon. I’m expecting 2022 to be pretty much business as usual. The problem is that people are trying to rush things, when we should know from the past 12 months that when rushing things, we tend to do one step forward, two steps back. I feel that schools re-opening was too soon, and we should have waited a couple more months. I’m expecting the infection rates to go up again to reflect schools returning. I might be wrong. People are saying we shouldnt worry about infections, but about the death rate, and as long as death rates reduce, job done. But suffering from long covid myself - no smell or taste for 6 months, and excessive tiredness, I would say that we have to treat this differently to the normal flu and viruses, where people say let’s just get on with it. Long covid is very real, and massively affects your life. And we don’t yet know what long term affects are on lungs etc. That will be something which becomes more apparent a few years from now.

It’s also possible that if Britain was still part of the EU, the EU collectively would have taken the approach to vaccine procurement and development that Britain has. We’ll never know really.

Doubt it - we'd have been pressured to invest in Sanofi, I think. There would have been little incentive to put so much into AZ