Is life never going back to normal?

[JuneMoonstone]

I feel incredibly lucky that I've lived 44 years of a normal life. I am heartbroken at the way life has become. Like so many others, I feel like I am existing, not living. I don't see any point in making plans, I don't feel any hope for the future. I was feeling quite positive about the progress made in the UK with vaccines and seeing the infection rates and death rates lower. However with the news about the rest of Europe going into lockdown due to escalating infection rates, I can't help but feel that we are never going to get out of this bloody mess. I cannot help but believe that we will have to live our lives under constant restrictions forever now because of this virus. Is life really going to be shit from now on? Will I ever be able to, for example, go into a busy pub on a Friday night and watch a live band and have a bloody good time again? Will we have to wear face masks permanently in public places from now on? I get a very strong feeling that this will be the case. It's my daughter I feel for the most. She's just 5 years old. What kind of a life is she going to have?

@RaraRachael

I thought that the vaccine was to be the answer and can't believe that I'll be vaccinated by the summer but still can't go abroad - so what's the point. I'm fed up of people telling me I'm being selfish and to think of the people who have died. Nobody knows how much time they have left. I'm at the stage when i'm free to do as I like but feel I'm just existing atm, not living as a PP said. It was tolerable at the beginning as it was only "to flatten the curve". Now over a year later we're still in lockdown and there are endless mutations - I can't see a way out of this.

Indeed and a good point - but it has become much more a political issue now than a health issue. If the Government were to try and lift restrictions and cases started to rise then they would be heavily criticised or if they didn't rise then others would question what was the point of the restrictions in the first place.

I think the Government's preferred solution is to "vaccinate" as much of the population as possible before winter then say we've did me all we can and any further covid deaths are simply something we have to get used to. Except what is an "acceptable Covid death toll" to you might be very different to what is acceptable to me or is acceptable to an 82 year old man with underlying health conditions.

And when I say 'second home' in my case it's my only home. Here I rent a two up two down for which the rent and council tax eat nearly all of my salary.

It's not just the rich who have legal, familial or emotional connections to other countries. Just because when you think of 'going abroad' you think of getting pissed round a pool doesn't mean that's what it is for all of us. Some of us have ties in more than one place. I'm here in UK to work and for ds to go to school and to be around for my elderly parents - it's my 'duty' place. My 'home' is elsewhere.

@1dayatatime I thought that the reason for the low levels of flu this year were due to the social distancing measures we’ve all been practising? The virus has not been able to circulate as widely as it normally would because we are not in close contact with large numbers of people and we’re all much more consistent with hand washing, etc.

However this means we have less immunity to the circulating strains and as a result some people think we could be in for a bad flu season in 2021/2022.

[quote Radio4Rocks]@MarshaBradyo

We’ll accept a level of deaths (like flu every year) and move on

Of course we won't. Don't be so ridiculous. You might but fortunately there are people with compassion and an understanding of science and they will prevail. Prevail against those who want to go to the pub or to Benidorm and more dead people is a cheap price to pay. They were probably sick or old so don't really matter, eh?

Dreadful attitude.[/quote]
Don’t be so silly. We don’t shut down society to stop the flu deaths so why will we do it for Covid, once numbers are more manageable. People have to die of something and Covid will just become yet another illness that impacts the old and frail.

[quote Radio4Rocks]@MarshaBradyo

We’ll accept a level of deaths (like flu every year) and move on

Of course we won't. Don't be so ridiculous. You might but fortunately there are people with compassion and an understanding of science and they will prevail. Prevail against those who want to go to the pub or to Benidorm and more dead people is a cheap price to pay. They were probably sick or old so don't really matter, eh?

Dreadful attitude.[/quote]
Have you listened to Chris Whitty?

He says the same. Do you get this upset about fluctuating flu deaths every year? Do you know which year was highest recently?

@RosesAndHellebores All I can say is thank goodness for Brexit. Without it we would be where Europe is now - enduring an escalating third wave. We are not. We do however need to restrict overseas travel for the time being until there is more information about transmissability amongst the vaccinated and the overall duration, efficacy of the vaccines and a booster system for variants and/or the most vulnerable.

Brexit has nothing to do with the third wave. We went into Lockdown in December whilst most of Europe stayed open with curfews and low level restrictions their schools stayed open too. They are ahead of us simply because of our lockdown.

Our numbers will be going up now though because schools have opened here so expect our third wave to start building in the next month or two.

Brexit 😆

@Radio4Rocks
I know it sounds harsh but death is a natural part of life. It is devastating when people die very young, when they suffer tragic and horrible death, but we still accept it because we have to. We can do so much with science. We have to ask ourselves if we are ok with extending life at the expense of its quality. I know many older people who don't want to live like this and rather spend their days with family than sit alone in the house without the contact with another human being.

Interestingly deaths from "flu" are at an historic low which maybe because Covid out competed flu in infections, or that flu deaths were recorded as Covid deaths or for some other reason.

It could be because people have embraced handwashing, not coughing all over each other, and staying home when sick instead of dashing out to infect everyone they meet because it's a warped badge of honour to keep working. If these new habits can stay with us, flu rates might stay low for a good while.

@GoldenOmber

Covid is NOT seasonal like Flu so it’s not as if you can say ok everyone start booking in for your covid jabs it’s that time of year. They are formulated based on the knowledge of the current variants at the time.

It is seasonal like flu, and formulating based on the knowledge of the current variants at the time is exactly what we do with flu. Usually we look to see what’s happening with flu strains in the southern hemisphere and guess from that. So we have a good model for dealing with annual vaccinations to cover new variants, if that in fact is what’s needed.

Curious to know how it can be seasonal when Brazil is being devastated during their summer?

All I can say is thank goodness for Brexit. Without it we would be where Europe is now - enduring an escalating third wave.

you should compare our numbers before celebrating...

I agree with this, I'm so fed up. We. Have the strictest restrictions of most countries. I've got friends in social media in many European countries and the US and I'm sick of seeing how they are able to do more.

@RaraRachael

I thought that the vaccine was to be the answer and can't believe that I'll be vaccinated by the summer but still can't go abroad - so what's the point. I'm fed up of people telling me I'm being selfish and to think of the people who have died. Nobody knows how much time they have left. I'm at the stage when i'm free to do as I like but feel I'm just existing atm, not living as a PP said. It was tolerable at the beginning as it was only "to flatten the curve". Now over a year later we're still in lockdown and there are endless mutations - I can't see a way out of this.

Even if you are vaccinated those in the country that you want to visit may not be, travel increases the risk of bringing back new variants that our current vaccines are not effective against and so it all starts again. I just wish that there was greater co operation between all countries to get people vaccinated. The politicisation of vaccines and vaccine nationalism nonsense is really not going to get us very far because as is evident from what's happening in the EU. We need to work together on this because none of us are safe until we are all safe.

@Thewiseoneincognito - I think you have missed the fact that were it not for Brexit vaccination would be in the hands of Europe for the UK. May I gently direct you towards the shambles that is the European vaccination roll out. Without Brexit we would absolutely be a part of that shambles.

Lots of the vulnerable have had both jabs. I'm willing to live with covid now.

@IrishMamaMia

I agree with this, I'm so fed up. We. Have the strictest restrictions of most countries. I've got friends in social media in many European countries and the US and I'm sick of seeing how they are able to do more.

Maybe not so much going forward as much of France, Italy abs Germany are now having a theirs wave and tougher restrictions

Radio here you go

www.ageuk.org.uk/lambeth/about-us/news/articles/2017/rise-in-excess-deaths-for-elderly-last-winter-likely-due-to-flu/

The highest number of winter deaths since then was seen in 2014/15 when the winter death toll reached almost 44,000 with the peak being attributed to a less effective flu vaccination

Did you think much about it?

Probably not because you hadn’t been subject to a necessary but fear-based SD campaign to keep us apart.

But it’s pretty high and society kept functioning with a few headlines

[quote CaveMum]@1dayatatime I thought that the reason for the low levels of flu this year were due to the social distancing measures we’ve all been practising? The virus has not been able to circulate as widely as it normally would because we are not in close contact with large numbers of people and we’re all much more consistent with hand washing, etc.

However this means we have less immunity to the circulating strains and as a result some people think we could be in for a bad flu season in 2021/2022.[/quote]
I completely agree with your point on numbers of flu deaths in winter 21/22 unless of course Covid out competes the flu virus so someone with underlying Heath conditions that would have died from flu is killed earlier by Covid or that flu deaths are labelled as Covid deaths on the basis that if you are sick enough to be in hospital with flu then you'll probably pick up Covid as well.

As for the face mask and hand sanitizer theory on reducing flu cases I don't really buy it. If face masks were that effective at reducing flu deaths then why weren't they so effective at reducing Covid deaths - it doesn't make sense.

OldScrappyAndHungry - Don’t compare us to Europe. They’re miles behind with their vaccines and we’ve had our third and second wave together

We have to look at what is happening especially in Europe as we're not safe until everyone is safe. They're our closest neighbours. And that second comment is almost ridiculous - do you know what a wave is?

@Musicaldilemma

The old normal has gone because the pandemic has changed the world. So there will be a new normal, which will be more like the old normal than what we are living through now but never really the same. It will be a new era. A bit like pre and post 9/11 or pre and post internet. But this will feel even more significant.

I agree.

Life will go on, but not quite as it was before. Hopefully we will have developed more respect for the fragile plane we live on and its delicate ecosystem.

@JuneMoonstone

Thank you for all your replies. I'm struggling to come to terms with it all, even after all this time. What I don't understand is that there have been pandemics in the past such as Spanish Flu, but they lasted for a limited period of time and then they ended and life resumed as normal. What is it about Covid 19 that makes it different from all the other pandemics in the past, in that our way of living will be changed permanently? Why is there the liklihood that we will have to wear face coverings for many years to come when this wasn't the case for the Spanish flu? Is it because we are being prepped for another pandemic that is expected to arrive imminently, so that social distancing and face coverings become the norm? Do I need to just accept that from now on, whenever I go into a shop, any public space or when I take my child to school, that I need to wear a face covering? Do I need to give up the hope of ever going to the theatre again? Will I ever be able to shake someone's hand again, unless they are a member of my immediate family?

The reason this is different is because in 2020/2021 we won’t accept the huge death toll. It’s different because of the internet and being able to keep the country running whilst huge amounts of people at home. We’re there lockdowns in 1918? No. Because that simply couldn’t have happened with no communication other than in person. So much was less machine automated then, and done in person. No lockdowns meant far more deaths. But deaths in all ages was far more common in people’s lives than it is now, and really there wasn’t much alternative. Most people survived or not! And the world moved on. It mutated, towards the end which also helped it end

I think things will be normal in terms of everything being open again. However, the pandemic will have an impact for many years to come as many people who thought it could never happen now realise it could. Whilst this disease has mainly affected older people and those with underlying conditions, the next one might mainly affect younger or healthy people, similar to Spanish flu. I appreciate everything didn't stop then but that was the society that sent young men to die on the front line in the First World War.

Curious to know how it can be seasonal when Brazil is being devastated during their summer?

‘Seasonal’ doesn’t mean ‘disappears into the ether over summer’.

Right now covid has a huge population of people with no immunity to infect, so it is infecting a lot of people everywhere it can. But even now we have indications that there’s a seasonal pattern - that it seems to spread more in Western Europe autumn/winter, and then more so in some kinds of weather than others.

This shouldn’t be a surprise really because the other human coronaviruses act like this too. (And probably started as pandemics too and had this kind of beginning.) Once covid becomes an endemic virus, it’ll probably act like them - there’ll be more of it in our winter, and rates will die back again over our summer.

*planet, not plane

@silverglitterbaubles not really, they've never banned people getting together indoors and they never will.
They've never criminalised protests.

[quote RosesAndHellebores]@Thewiseoneincognito - I think you have missed the fact that were it not for Brexit vaccination would be in the hands of Europe for the UK. May I gently direct you towards the shambles that is the European vaccination roll out. Without Brexit we would absolutely be a part of that shambles.[/quote]
There was no requirement to be part of the EU vaccination program as far as I am aware so we could have still gone our own way regardless of Brexit. We can flag wave all we like but the fact is as long as Europe remains unvaccinated we are at greater risk of importing new strains that our vaccines are not effective against. It is a foolish mistake to think we are safe if the virus is raging next door.