Summer holidays abroad?

[TheRedBalloon]

I've just been reading that various Sage members have said international travel is unlikely this Summer.
We booked our holiday for the end of July to the Canaries (booked it last Summer.) Just wondering has anyone else booked for abroad and still expects to go, or is it more likely to be cancelled? DH and I have both had our first jabs and will have had both in May/June. We booked through TUI so I know we'll get a refund but the thought of going away has kept me going through lockdown!

(I know this is trivial compared with the illnesses / deaths due to the pandemic)

More on manatee: www.mindfood.com/article/tourism-threat-to-manatees-survival/

@Jayparrot

It's so obvious that some people here have a real hatred of those who enjoy an affordable holiday abroad once a year, and are using 'the environment' and 'variants' as a way to indulge themselves

I dont hate anyone but do you really think that the impact of international travel on climate change is a conversation we shouldn't be having because people enjoy sunshine and seeing manatee?

People enjoy travelling for all sorts of reasons which you clearly have no understanding of, and which they certainly do not need to justify to you.

And yes, international travel has environmental impacts, as does driving cars, having children, using air conditioning and a million other lifestyle choices. For me, travel is a priority and I'm going to resume it as soon as it's possible. Unless you have given up activities which you enjoy because of 'the environment', you don't get to lecture.

@Jayparrot

It's so obvious that some people here have a real hatred of those who enjoy an affordable holiday abroad once a year, and are using 'the environment' and 'variants' as a way to indulge themselves

I dont hate anyone but do you really think that the impact of international travel on climate change is a conversation we shouldn't be having because people enjoy sunshine and seeing manatee?

Zero. I feel zero guilt about the once a year Europe flight my children and I take. Zero.

The idea of going on the wonderful holidays posters here are describing (manatees, Florida, cross-US tours, Thailand, Australia....) is a complete pipe dream for me and many, many others. All I want is to be able to visit my parents who live a days drive away, but in a different country. I could get in my car right now and be there in time to have a glass of wine with my mum this evening. Failing that I'd be happy with a standard caravan holiday somewhere in the U.K., but even that is looking unobtainable because all the people who would usually spend £££££ on long haul trips have driven up the prices here and there's nowhere available for families on limited incomes for whom a camping trip is a stretch in normal times.

@Jayparrot

It's so obvious that some people here have a real hatred of those who enjoy an affordable holiday abroad once a year, and are using 'the environment' and 'variants' as a way to indulge themselves

I dont hate anyone but do you really think that the impact of international travel on climate change is a conversation we shouldn't be having because people enjoy sunshine and seeing manatee?

What are you using to post Jayparrot?

Do you wash all of your clothes by hand?

Do you have children?

Do you drive a car?

Do you have gas central heating?

Do you grow all of your own food?

I wonder whether you’re in a position to be demanding discussion about other people’s carbon footprint.

Unless you have given up activities which you enjoy because of 'the environment', you don't get to lecture.

I have.

I totally understand why people enjoy travel. Totally. What I don't get is the denial of the fact it is problematic.

@IcedPurple

*Sadly some here would still take their chances for a week in Benidorm.

‘Lerrus in, wiv ad ar jabs’ ’*

The snobbery is appalling.

It's so obvious that some people here have a real hatred of those who enjoy an affordable holiday abroad once a year, and are using 'the environment' and 'variants' as a way to indulge themselves.

I don’t hate them at all. I resent the fact that people’s selfish desire to go on holiday could be at the cost of prolonging this hell we’re stuck in.

@Jayparrot

Unless you have given up activities which you enjoy because of 'the environment', you don't get to lecture.

I have.

I totally understand why people enjoy travel. Totally. What I don't get is the denial of the fact it is problematic.

Eh? I know that travel has environmental impacts. I said that above. So does having children, using cars and so many other things.

I don't indulge in either of the above. I live a pretty low carbon lifestyle outside of a few usually short-haul flights a year. Travel is very important to me and I'm not going to give it up, nor am I going to be guilted about it.

What exactly have you given up that qualifies you to lecture total strangers on their lifestyles? What actual sacrifices have you made for 'the environment' that you claim to care so much about?

I wonder whether you’re in a position to be demanding discussion about other people’s carbon footprint.

But don't you see this is the issue. The outraged opinion that unless you're squeaky clean environmentally (which BTW none of us are as in today's world it is virtually impossible to be), you can have no opinion on anything. None of the scientists researching the effects of climate change will be squeaky clean either. Should the research be stopped and should they stop presenting their findings to the world?

Again, I am not perfect. I never said I was. What iI did say was that if we continue to travel (among other things of course) as we were pre pandemic, it is our children who will face the consequences. That isn't me being judgy or saying you can't go on holiday, it's just a fact.

@Reachersloveinterest

The idea of going on the wonderful holidays posters here are describing (manatees, Florida, cross-US tours, Thailand, Australia....) is a complete pipe dream for me and many, many others. All I want is to be able to visit my parents who live a days drive away, but in a different country. I could get in my car right now and be there in time to have a glass of wine with my mum this evening. Failing that I'd be happy with a standard caravan holiday somewhere in the U.K., but even that is looking unobtainable because all the people who would usually spend £££££ on long haul trips have driven up the prices here and there's nowhere available for families on limited incomes for whom a camping trip is a stretch in normal times.

I’m so sorry for you. That is so very sad and I take it for granted how easy it is for me to see my mother and father.

Just like this country cannot provide enough food ourselves for all who live here, we also don’t have the holiday capacity and you’re right, holiday prices in the UK right now are ridiculous. Next year they will be higher again. It will likely end up cheaper for you to go abroad in the end.

It seems that people are hell-bent on going abroad this year. If so, at the very least they should be made to quarantine on the way back for however many days that is, at their own expense.

What exactly have you given up that qualifies you to lecture total strangers on their lifestyles? What actual sacrifices have you made for 'the environment' that you claim to care so much about?

I haven't had a second child. I don't travel by plane. I don't commute to work. I don't use the heating March to October. I don't own a car. I have given up meat and dairy. I don't buy new clothes.

I don’t hate them at all. I resent the fact that people’s selfish desire to go on holiday could be at the cost of prolonging this hell we’re stuck in.

So why the stereotypical mention of a "week in Benidorm" and the nasty "‘Lerrus in, wiv ad ar jabs’?

Why not sneer at 'selfish' folks missing the artisan organic dry white during their annual two weeks at that villa in Tuscany?

@Jayparrot

What exactly have you given up that qualifies you to lecture total strangers on their lifestyles? What actual sacrifices have you made for 'the environment' that you claim to care so much about?

I haven't had a second child. I don't travel by plane. I don't commute to work. I don't use the heating March to October. I don't own a car. I have given up meat and dairy. I don't buy new clothes.

Are any of these major sacrifices to you though? Most people I know don't use the heating March to October. Presumably your husband doesn't have a car either and you would never travel in one?

Sorry about the raggy clothes though.

Anyone booking a foreign holiday this year is foolish (and I say that as an ex travel industry employee with many travel industry friends on furlough with a dire future in the industry). It will just bring back more variants.

@IcedPurple

I don’t hate them at all. I resent the fact that people’s selfish desire to go on holiday could be at the cost of prolonging this hell we’re stuck in.

So why the stereotypical mention of a "week in Benidorm" and the nasty "‘Lerrus in, wiv ad ar jabs’?

Why not sneer at 'selfish' folks missing the artisan organic dry white during their annual two weeks at that villa in Tuscany?

Benidorm and Alicante is a lovely place it just has a reputation for being rough, there’s no sneering from me. You’re seeing what you want to see.

The outraged opinion that unless you're squeaky clean environmentally (which BTW none of us are as in today's world it is virtually impossible to be), you can have no opinion on anything

Sure you can have an opinion. But when you come on to lecture complete strangers about doing something that's important to them, you'd better be sure that you've got your own house in order first.

That isn't me being judgy

Good one!

or saying you can't go on holiday

What authority do you have to say anyone can't do anything?

So why the stereotypical mention of a "week in Benidorm" and the nasty "‘Lerrus in, wiv ad ar jabs’?

That wasn't me so not sure why that was addressed to me.

Sorry about the raggy clothes though.

They aren't. My clothes are all in good condition. As I said, I'm the daughter of refugees and we were brought to mend our things and live frugally. I have a lovely life. I am more than used to being sneered at by ignorant, privileged people.

What authority do you have to say anyone can't do anything?

I havent done that so not sure what the aggression is about.

That wasn't me so not sure why that was addressed to me.

It wasn't.

@Jayparrot

I wonder whether you’re in a position to be demanding discussion about other people’s carbon footprint.

But don't you see this is the issue. The outraged opinion that unless you're squeaky clean environmentally (which BTW none of us are as in today's world it is virtually impossible to be), you can have no opinion on anything. None of the scientists researching the effects of climate change will be squeaky clean either. Should the research be stopped and should they stop presenting their findings to the world?

Again, I am not perfect. I never said I was. What iI did say was that if we continue to travel (among other things of course) as we were pre pandemic, it is our children who will face the consequences. That isn't me being judgy or saying you can't go on holiday, it's just a fact.

If I can’t go on my holiday this summer, it will be because I’m not allowed and not because I’ve engaged in a discussion about the environment and chosen to throw my hard earned cash down the drain. I will simply rebook it for next year.

It won't be Boris, it'll be whether the country you want to go to is allowing tourists

Up to a point it is, though; if the FCO says "no travel" we can't get insurance for a start, and to travel without it would be foolish in the extreme (more so for some countries than others)

As for the ridiculous panic about variants, the point so many miss is that there'll always be variants, just as there always have. Yes we can vaccinate against whatever the known ones are, but as soon as we do that there'll be another on the way ... so unless folk are prepared to go on saying "Oh it'll be okay next year" until hell freezes over, we might as well accept that we'll just have to get on with it

@Jayparrot

What exactly have you given up that qualifies you to lecture total strangers on their lifestyles? What actual sacrifices have you made for 'the environment' that you claim to care so much about?

I haven't had a second child. I don't travel by plane. I don't commute to work. I don't use the heating March to October. I don't own a car. I have given up meat and dairy. I don't buy new clothes.

Sounds miserable! Your lectures and asceticism still won't effect anyone in how they live their lives.

@Jayparrot

What exactly have you given up that qualifies you to lecture total strangers on their lifestyles? What actual sacrifices have you made for 'the environment' that you claim to care so much about?

I haven't had a second child. I don't travel by plane. I don't commute to work. I don't use the heating March to October. I don't own a car. I have given up meat and dairy. I don't buy new clothes.

If you're happy giving up all of those things, crack on. But you need to get down from your high horse. I don't think that's a nice way to live. I have three children and have never felt guilty about their impact on the environment?!

Sounds miserable! Your lectures and asceticism still won't effect anyone in how they live their lives.

Maybe not but at least I'll be able to look my son in the eye when he's older and tell him I did my best.

And our life isn't miserable. We are a very happy family. & luckily not dependent on the weather to enjoy ourselves either.