If we would have heard that 125,000 people would have died in the U.K. of C19, in March 2020, where would our minds be?

[EddyF]

Not sure if my title makes sense as I can’t see it all on my phone. But I was just wondering how hearing the U.K. has lost 125,000 people since the pandemic started and it hardly stirs any emotion in me. The early days in 2020, even the news of 200 people had died used to flood me. I just feel sad that these figures don’t have the same impact on me.

I don’t watch TV much and today I am watching Sky and just heard the current figure.

Does anyone else feel the same? I hate that I am so desensitised.

I just remember it was Stalin that said one death is a tragedy, one million a statistic

Of course it really needs to be done properly, and our government's failed miserably on that.

@IloveJKRowling

I really don't think having a quarantine on entry really is that much of a problem. Australia doesn't have closed borders - I know people that have travelled there recently. Yes, you have to quarantine for two weeks in a hotel and have covid tests.

They're able to have a pretty normal life. Quarantining arrivals seems a small price to pay.

For how long would you do it JK?

Five, ten years? Eg if vaccine hadn’t worked that is.

And do you think we could do the same with road freight?

Maybe some would be ok with hotel quarantine for that long.

If we'd had a referendum last March and the choice was
a - 125,000 dead, trashed economy, NHS staff with PTSD and leaving in droves and 3 lockdowns, loads of missed school for kids (via lockdown and repeated isolations)
or
b- making all arrivals quarantine for 2 weeks but otherwise life continues pretty much as normal, with occasional measures when there are covid outbreaks

I think the overwhelming majority would have chosen b.

Fortunately of course we have many working vaccines so at some point we’ll merge in strategy with Aus / NZ etc

After we’ve all vaccinated

@IloveJKRowling

If we'd had a referendum last March and the choice was a - 125,000 dead, trashed economy, NHS staff with PTSD and leaving in droves and 3 lockdowns, loads of missed school for kids (via lockdown and repeated isolations) or b- making all arrivals quarantine for 2 weeks but otherwise life continues pretty much as normal, with occasional measures when there are covid outbreaks

I think the overwhelming majority would have chosen b.

Yes but this is slightly different to the what if no vaccine which someone kicked off as discussion by asking what I meant in a post

Some seem to be saying they’d still choose zero Covid without vaccine - even if it was for years

I doubt that because we had high levels of community transmission so stopping tourists wouldn’t have changed it.

I never ever gave true details to track and trace because there was no way I was ever going to isolate if contacted since I couldn’t afford it (self employed) - people like me would have been as much of a problem

I'd always chose max suppression/zero covid without knowing when or if we'd get vaccines, even if it was for years.

It leads to less death and disruption than the lockdown Hokey Cokey.

I'd have rather have had New Zealand's last year than ours.

They looked after their own people, and that's why they've got 146,000 fewer covid deaths than we have.

I'd rather have NZ's next year than ours too. And the one after.

@PrincessNutNuts

I'd always chose max suppression/zero covid without knowing when or if we'd get vaccines, even if it was for years.

It leads to less death and disruption than the lockdown Hokey Cokey.

I'd have rather have had New Zealand's last year than ours.

They looked after their own people, and that's why they've got 146,000 fewer covid deaths than we have.

I'd rather have NZ's next year than ours too. And the one after.

Of course but you’ve only described three years.

What next?

Even the WHO points out the issue with closing off long term

Obviously the vaccine solves this issue

But people seem a bit short sighted if they think they can avoid a virus long term - had we not had what was really the only solution

@MarshaBradyo

Even the WHO points out the issue with closing off long term

Obviously the vaccine solves this issue

But people seem a bit short sighted if they think they can avoid a virus long term - had we not had what was really the only solution

Well NZ is having a pretty normal year and U.K. is going to have more covid deaths than last year.

I hope we get a grip in year 3.

Lucky for everyone some countries have developed working vaccines so here’s hoping.

A quick google suggests 616K UK deaths in 2018, down to 604K in 2019 and up to just below 696K in 2020. So in the region of 80K-90K "excess" deaths last year.

@MarshaBradyo

Lucky for everyone some countries have developed working vaccines so here’s hoping.

Yes, trying to get to herd immunity the old fashioned way wasn't really working was it?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8108271/amp/Chief-scientific-adviser-wants-60-percent-entire-population-catch-coronavirus.html?twitterrimpression=true

@HangingOverTheEdge

A quick google suggests 616K UK deaths in 2018, down to 604K in 2019 and up to just below 696K in 2020. So in the region of 80K-90K "excess" deaths last year.

The accepted measure is the five year average.

I listened to 2 podcasts available on BBC radio about the COVID crisis, it’s a timeline of events if you will.

The commentary seemed to be leaning that whilst faster/other decisions could have been taken pre March last year, a lot was really unknown in many ways and the really telling (deadly if you will) decisions were in Sept/Oct.

The commentary seemed to be leaning that whilst faster/other decisions could have been taken pre March last year, a lot was really unknown in many ways and the really telling (deadly if you will) decisions were in Sept/Oct

Yes, I think mistakes in March could be forgiven, sort of, but mistakes in Sept/October really not. It's not as if we didn't have loads of information showing what worked and what didn't at that point. Sage wanted more restrictions sooner, they really didn't follow the science.

Yes, trying to get to herd immunity the old fashioned way wasn't really working was it?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8108271/amp/Chief-scientific-adviser-wants-60-percent-entire-population-catch-coronavirus.html?_twitterr_impression=true

You’ve linked the Daily Mail.

You need a better source as your understanding is skewed.

He didn’t ‘want’ it, it wasn’t a strategy but a statement based on science. Merkel, who has a good understanding, said the same.

I think you need to widen your reading away from tabloids.

@MarshaBradyo

Yes, trying to get to herd immunity the old fashioned way wasn't really working was it?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8108271/amp/Chief-scientific-adviser-wants-60-percent-entire-population-catch-coronavirus.html?_twitterr_impression=true

You’ve linked the Daily Mail.

You need a better source as your understanding is skewed.

He didn’t ‘want’ it, it wasn’t a strategy but a statement based on science. Merkel, who has a good understanding, said the same.

I think you need to widen your reading away from tabloids.

It links to a video of Patrick Vallance speaking a year ago.

So he is the source.

You misunderstood him then.

@IloveJKRowling

The commentary seemed to be leaning that whilst faster/other decisions could have been taken pre March last year, a lot was really unknown in many ways and the really telling (deadly if you will) decisions were in Sept/Oct

Yes, I think mistakes in March could be forgiven, sort of, but mistakes in Sept/October really not. It's not as if we didn't have loads of information showing what worked and what didn't at that point. Sage wanted more restrictions sooner, they really didn't follow the science.

I think we should have listened to Caprice.

in early March she pointed out on Jeremy Vine that countries such as Taiwan and Singapore were months ahead of us and handling it like they handled SARS. That tv GP Sarah Jarvis openly laughed at her.

So if Caprice knew what was what... Our government had been shown and told enough to deal with the first wave competently. But they were wedded to their Herd Immunity bullshit.

Not waiting until the North's numbers were, low enough, Doing nothing to make schools actually safer, Eat Out To Help Out, Taking advice from Tegnell, Gupta and Heneghan, Ignoring the steadily rising numbers for two months, the farce of the Tiers system, Coming out of the November lockdown on December 2nd because they'd promised the ERG, the whole Christmas debacle...

That doubled our death toll.

So many British people are dead because of them it babes be feel ill.

@MarshaBradyo

Fortunately of course we have many working vaccines so at some point we’ll merge in strategy with Aus / NZ etc

After we’ve all vaccinated

But we won't ever be all vaccinated.

There are a number who can't, and plenty of others who won't.

Dumpling ah yes important to type that.

Other than picking over words with bold when it’s obvious the more interesting part is we will merge strategy with Aus / NZ and other countries.

I do apologise, why didn't you tell me what the more interesting part of your comment was before I read what you actually typed.