EU threatening to cut off supply of vaccines to UK

[Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady]

Because they've not got enough apparently (despite the fact that they've got a shit load of AZ stockpiled because they've mostly stopped using it)

This is really starting to piss me off now, and has someone who is due 2nd Pfizer jab in 8 weeks in starting to worry I won't get it!

They're threatening to stop supply to USA too.

Wankers

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/ursula-von-der-leyen-threatens-cut-off-covid-exports-uk-b924652.html

But I would imagine it is because India didn't get on a massive megaphone and shout from the roof tops "fuck you UK, we need them more and we want yours!"

this^^

There's the right way to ask for assistance and then there's the EU way.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

UK govt has it in for EU threatening supplies, when India actually goes and does it, a more softly tone is applied. Nope!

The Indian situation is a contractual matter. As posted upthread.

The EU situation is not contractial, or maybe is but only because the EU one is different. It disadvantages the EU in the same was as the UK is disadvantged by their contract with the Indian AZ supplier. Think that through...

The UK is both advantged by and disadvantaged by the same contractual issues... THAT is why they aren't making a fuss about the Indian shortfall.

I don't understand the az contacts I thought I did but the introduction of India has confused me.

The original idea was az works with companies in different countries and continents to produce vaccines for that region.
Think of it like a subcontract or a franchise.
So a Belgian firm and halix in Netherlands has agreed with az to produce vaccines for EU supply chain.

The eu initial vaccines for EU and Australia until they can start manufacturing there.
A lot has been said about the 2 uk sites being exclusively for UK orders then once uk is OK they will export.

The serum institute was meant to be fir India Africa and other Asian countries.
I don't think was meant for the UKor EU supply chain.
I and many had no idea India was supplying uk orders at all its huge surprise.
We did learn that az Sweden kust have done a deal with serum institute to pacify EU as they were angry in jan they were not getting what they ordered but az managed find a extra 9million I think it was and speculag at time it had come from uk but it it had come from India.

I am so confused about az contacts and supply chains.

I only caught up with Serum yesterday!

www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-britain-india-idUSKCN2AV0A2

Their spokesman was quite clear about the delay A spokesperson for the Serum Institute said: "Five million doses had been delivered a few weeks ago to the UK and we will try to supply more later, based on the current situation and the requirement for the government immunisation programme in India." - from a BBC article

It's that last bit... supply for India as the Prime Contract! Just as the AZ contract was for the UK. That and the further gist was that UK is waaaaaay down the list, as promises had been made that any UK supply would not be at the cost of some other poorer country. And of course the over supply will go to Covax as first port of call!

Distribution to EU countries were made on the assumption that Halix factory will have received EMA approval but that hasn't been given the green light yet.

www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0313/1203746-coronavirus-global/

I have read (although this may be wrong) that Halix was intended for the UK supply chain initially, which is why it does not (yet) have EMA approval to supply the EU.

I suspect that Az knows there is little point in them applying for export licences from EU sites to the UK, because they won't get them.

I wonder if Az has plugged that gap with vaccine from their Indian arm?

All very much speculation, as hopefully I've made clear!

[quote shivawn]@Umbivalent Right....but I'm obviously referring the Pfizer vaccine not Oxford? Since UK decided to go against Pfizer guidelines, were you not aware?[/quote]
Ah, well in that case we're still fine @shivawn

www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccines-second-dose-delay-complicated

Those numbers justify temporarily postponing second doses to ensure that more people get their first shots, says Robert Wachter, who heads the Department of Medicine at the University of California, San Francisco.

“That’s not a hard math question,” he says. “You’ll save far, far more lives — on the order of tens of thousands more lives — giving those extra vaccine doses to people for their first shot, getting them from zero to 85 percent protected, than using that same capacity [for] giving people their second shot and getting them from 85 to 95 [percent efficacy].”

Here's another study in case you're still worried @shivawn

New Pfizer jab study supports Government 12-week interval, researchers claim

He added: ‘Whilst we do not know how long this immunity will last beyond 21 days without a second booster, we are unlikely to see any major decline during the following nine weeks.’

Professor Hunter told Pulse that although we can’t be ‘certain’ that immunity will not decline between 21 days and 12 weeks, immunity levels ‘don’t decrease that quickly for anything’.

He said: ‘We don’t know for certain that that will last for a very long time but with all the other information that we have about natural infection with Covid, the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine and vaccinations to pretty much every other viral disease that you could wish to name, [we think] that’s going to last at least six months with that sort of level and certainly it’ll last well enough to your second dose.

‘There’s been a lot of criticism of the increased gap, but very little of that criticism has come from people who work in infectious diseases.’

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/clinical-areas/immunology-and-vaccines/new-pfizer-jab-study-supports-government-12-week-interval-researchers-claim/?cmpredirect

@umbivalent Not one bit worried although you seem to be going to an awful lot of trouble to reassure me :) . As I said UK are going against manufactor guidelines, quoting a bunch of studies isn't going to change that.

[quote EpiphanySoul1]**@Umbivalent* What about UK exports to the EU?*

There has been no public announcement of any vaccine exports from the UK, and no evidence that any have taken place.

www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/45877605

And if you think it’s sheer coincidence the U.K. have exported zero vaccines I have a bridge to seek you.[/quote]
I direct you to this article in Politico, @EpiphanySoul1. We haven't banned anything. We're just a lot better at contracts than the EU.

The EU also has millions of vaccines in store. Whilst at the same time halting the use of the vaccine they are so keen to get hold of

Why the UK doesn’t need a coronavirus vaccine export ban

www.politico.eu/article/why-the-uk-doesnt-need-a-coronavirus-vaccine-export-ban/

[quote shivawn]@umbivalent Not one bit worried although you seem to be going to an awful lot of trouble to reassure me :) . As I said UK are going against manufactor guidelines, quoting a bunch of studies isn't going to change that.[/quote]
Lol, yes, stupid studies and actual real-world use!

[quote shivawn]@umbivalent Not one bit worried although you seem to be going to an awful lot of trouble to reassure me :) . As I said UK are going against manufactor guidelines, quoting a bunch of studies isn't going to change that.[/quote]
Aren't Germany and Denmark doing 12 weeks between first and second doses now?

@Motorina

I have read (although this may be wrong) that Halix was intended for the UK supply chain initially, which is why it does not (yet) have EMA approval to supply the EU.

I suspect that Az knows there is little point in them applying for export licences from EU sites to the UK, because they won't get them.

I wonder if Az has plugged that gap with vaccine from their Indian arm?

All very much speculation, as hopefully I've made clear!

I think you are right as Kate Bingham has said we helped and invested in eu supply chains.

This article is very interesting read on why we picked certain vaccines and how we negotiated.

www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/02/07/news/kate_bingham_interview_vaccines_covid_astrazeneca_uk_coronavirus_johnson-286384093/

Also politico says Netherlands was part kf uk supply chain.
We sent people there to help .
Not sure if we invested much money in the Dutch plant.

www.politico.eu/article/breton-no-astrazeneca-jabs-exported-from-netherlands-after-eu-export-controls/

@StormzyinaTCup
Aren't Germany and Denmark doing 12 weeks between first and second doses now?
Germany only waits 12 weeks with the second dose for AZ, not for Pfizer.

Ah ok, thanks for clarifying Guinan.

Britain in secret talks to get jabs from India back on track www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9378407/Britain-secret-talks-AstraZeneca-jabs-India-track.html?ito=native_share_article-masthead

Apologies linking daily mail not sure if we are in secret talks.
What I found interesting as we never hear anything about India and Indian politics.
I'm surprised uk was getting vaccines from India as that's clearly outside of thier supply chain .
However the amount the serum institute produce i guess 5million to them is a drop in the ocean.
I don't know what our relationship is like with India bojo due to visit soon and hes taken more diplomatic approach denying its the Indian government banning exports.
I suppose historically and culturally we have ties as well as lots uk businesses have subcontracted work to India.
The advantage being small nation /island is we don't need that many compared to the EU block.
Could Boris maybe start talks of new trade deals as way to persuade India to help.

We have greater chance India helping uk than maybe Europe or USA as Biden wants better relationships with Europe .

The UK is lucky and in a way states as no elections for us for 4years.
However Europe lots elections which seems be bringing in national politics into the whole sorry mess.
I think diplomacy is a important skill.
Despite uk ms media whipping up bad feeling our government as shit as they are haven't spun this they being diplomatic and playing nice so far.
I don't know what German politics are like but udvl really needs to think about bigger picture.
Are these serious threats block all exports or just posturing.
Will she start attacking India and the United States next?

Secret talks FFS!

That piece even repeats the difference in what was said by UK journos yesterday and what was obvious if you read the quotes from India!

You can tell when some journalist is over egging it, when the response from every politician sound measured and agree with each other, leaving the headline the outlier, with its own 'truth'.

Many countries restarting AZ

Not sure if all as only briefly heard list

@MarshaBradyo

Many countries restarting AZ

Not sure if all as only briefly heard list

Most starting today. Spain on Wednesday (before this they were thinking of approving it for 55+) so they might decide what to do about it before restarting

As of last night Germany, France, Italy and Spain have said they will restart. Cyprus, Latvia, LIthuania too

Ireland will decide today

Sweden want a bit longer, they've just had another death, clotting, a week after vaccination. I suspect Norway will too, as they had the deaths that started this, they could have something that needs to be looked at, changed.

this thread is about a theory for the rare blood clotting cases.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4195480-Danish-professor-says-injection-technique-could-be-to-blame-for-clots

Its interesting to read and the responses on the thread. I have no idea about vaccine procedures, which is why the thread is interesting.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Secret talks FFS!

That piece even repeats the difference in what was said by UK journos yesterday and what was obvious if you read the quotes from India!

You can tell when some journalist is over egging it, when the response from every politician sound measured and agree with each other, leaving the headline the outlier, with its own 'truth'.

I think daily mail is fairly lazy journalism personally. There was so much speculation at first it was shortages vaccine components the fact its not that is good. I don't think India has come out publicly and said we are implementing a export ban. Like you say because maybe they don't have to.. The serum institute seems to be a private business who have done contracts with AZ to produce and many countries to sell too. Clearly there's something in the contract maybe when infections are bad in India then they have to put Indian orders first. Az say uk has received exactly what it ordered. Its the EU that haven't received what they ordered and all I can assume is it goes back to contacts and contact law. Imposing a export ban is a retrospective and damaging move politically and economically to ensure they have enough vaccines to meet their needs. We know India has already sent a a lot to the block.

I guess over April we will see how badly confidence is damaged In az now countries are reinstating it and if the much promised Johnson and Johnson arrives.

The US is sending its spare AZ vaccines to Mexico and Canada only.

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/us-to-send-vaccine-stockpile-to-mexico-canada-dashing-eu-hopes-1.4513964

France are now only giving AZ to over 55’s, they are giving out such confusing messages

Vaccinations with the AstraZeneca jab in France can resume with immediate effect, the national authority for health announced on Friday.

However, the agency recommended the jab be only given to people aged 55 and older for the time being.

When the AstraZeneca vaccine started being rolled out in France, it had initially only been recommended for those under 65 due to concerns over lacking data from vaccine trials.

The agency’s latest recommendation comes after a small number of cases of a rare blood clotting disorder was reported in several European countries in people under 55 who had received the vaccine.

What the hell is Macron up to now?! I was just listening to a health expert on WATO who was utterly bemused by this new move by France to only advise the AZ jab for over 55s.

France are now only giving AZ to over 55’s

You absolutely could not make this up.