Told to isolate - can i collect children from school?

[petitdonkey]

Apologies if this has been done! I’ve just received a notification to isolate for eight days (I went to the supermarket on Saturday and was at work- no other contact!) - my children are at school, perhaps a stupid question but am I allowed to drive to pick up and drop off this week?? I have just emailed work who I guess won’t be thrilled...

What a PITA!!!

@UserTwice

That's not always true with teenagers. None of the school parents live anywhere near me so consequently I've no idea even who they are.

But your children presumably do? I'd happily give help one of my children's friends in a situation like this, even if it meant going out of my way.

Not all teenagers have friends. I wouldn't have had anyone I would have asked for a lift home with. I'd have walked instead, but then it was only three miles.

Not all teens have amazing friendship groups.

@UserTwice

So do all school parents have extra car seats?
The OP has teenagers, but what about people with primary school kids. Are we just assuming that all parents have extra car seats, and can actually fit 3 or 4 car seats in their car? Or are we expecting other parents to walk our kids, and theirs, out of their own way to walk ours home and then all trail to their own house?

What about people living rurally, where kids can be travelling in from 10/15/20 miles away?

I would drop off and pick up and not leave the car.

Children need to be in school unless OP herself tests positive.

People need to stop over reacting.

Okay. To my knowledge, the app works out if you've been within 2m of someone for 15 minutes who later tests positive.

covid19.nhs.uk/risk-scoring-algorithm.html

If you've been to M&S then, unless you were standing next to the fruit counter with the same person for 15 minutes, then it shouldn't trigger the app.

Also, the app doesn't understand risk profiles. Hence, if I stand 1.9 metres from a friend who later tests positive for COVID-19 while we're both wearing FP2 masks outside on a very windy day, then the likelihood the other person will get COVID is pretty low. In contrast, if we're both standing in a stuffy office unmasked, or I'm a dentist doing a root canal and the COVID-19 patient is my patient, I'm probably at very high risk.

I expect the person who got a notice to self-isolate when delivering a food parcel to a friend with COVID was within 2m of someone at the other side of a closed door.

In short, given what we now know about how COVID spreads, and the places you've been in the last week, I would have no concerns whatsoever about collecting my kids from school in a car, and not getting out of the car. You are, after all, unlikely to have caught the disease and going to be at home with the children subsequently.

My suspicion is it's either a false notification (at which point, you're exposing yourself to a risk of COVID by having your kids in a taxi with a stranger), or someone in the supermarket had COVID. Given you were, presumably, not close to them for an extended period, you may be unlucky enough to get the disease if there was extensive aerosol transmission, but it's also likely you didn't get exposed.

@FullofCurryandparatha yes do please explain how exposing two children of a potential positive contact to more households via a friend and a taxi driver is better than the mother that lives with them, driving them the car. And not getting out of that car.

Go and get your kids. The blind compliance after all this time is staggering. Your kids deserve an education, everyone vulnerable has been vaccinated, do what you have to do!

People are also failing to understand we are still in lockdown so shouldn’t be sharing lifts with other people! We’re not allowed in people’s houses or gardens so we really not be sitting in close contact inside in a car. This thread is bonkers.

I don't see any problem with driving them as long as you don't leave the car the whole time. I suppose there's a theoretical possibility that you could have an accident and then have to liaise with someone but the chance of that is really quite remote. Plus it sounds as though it's highly likely you're negative anyway - are you able to use some of your home tests to help give reassurance?

You absolutely can ignore the app if you are certain you have followed the guidelines at all times.

The technology works by using two different codes. Each day it creates a new code for your device which is stored on your phone. Then every 15 minutes it produces another random code that is shared and stored on the devices it communicates with via Bluetooth. All of these codes are deleted after 14 days.

This means that if your phone pinged off someone when you entered the supermarket, and then you encounter them again at the check out 15 minutes later - it assumes you have been in contact the whole time - even if you haven't. It doesn't know you were masked, or if the other person was masked.

This is just one of the many reasons why the app was not a good tool for test and trace. It works for close contacts- ie people you work with, might be sitting on a train with, went to dinner with - but beyond that you have to apply a little sense to the notifications.

I'm not saying people should totally ignore it, but you can take into consideration other things when deciding whether to self isolate or not.

@ThePlantsitter

I don't see the difference between staying at home with your teens and staying in the car with your teens. But nobody should let that interrupt their enjoyment of reminding OP of the RULES she HAS to follow ffs (given to her by an optionally installed app that most people don't have/have turned on).

Bless you for that post. I was beginning to think I was the only one who noticed the optional app, ffs.

People are cray cray (no, I’m not 13)

OP, go get your children and bring them home.

Just carry on taking them and collecting them.

@Londonwriter - that is very interesting and makes it all the more puzzling. The only people that I have seen under that criteria are work colleagues but they would have informed school if they were positive.

I think it’s highly unlikely that I have got it but I guess that’s not my decision to make. Fwiw I have a friend who is a GP and she says they have lost count of the number of positive cases who ‘have only been to the supermarket’. Saturday was only the second time I’ve been since December so I will be bloody unlucky if I managed to pick up covid! I certainly won’t be going again until I am vaccinated!!

@petitdonkey

All the people saying to ignore the app- I’m far too much of a conformist for that and I know my school wouldn’t want me. I might not keep the Bluetooth on after this though! A few people mentioned it’s not legally binding but it’s the nhs app...

@petitdonkey

It's not. The NHS didn't make an app. SERCO did and badged it as NHS. Many NHS staff have been to distance themselves from it. There is no app endorsed by actual NHS staff.

OP why are you even entertaining the notification you got from this app if you know you have not been in close contact with anyone?

It's CLOSE contact - not just oh someone in the supermarket has it because then most of us would be isolating all the time.

Not trying to bash you but I'm not sure why you're even giving this headspace, although I do appreciate that judging by some of the responses on here you didn't dare go against the sacred app of truth (not)

[quote petitdonkey]@Londonwriter - that is very interesting and makes it all the more puzzling. The only people that I have seen under that criteria are work colleagues but they would have informed school if they were positive.

I think it’s highly unlikely that I have got it but I guess that’s not my decision to make. Fwiw I have a friend who is a GP and she says they have lost count of the number of positive cases who ‘have only been to the supermarket’. Saturday was only the second time I’ve been since December so I will be bloody unlucky if I managed to pick up covid! I certainly won’t be going again until I am vaccinated!![/quote]
Yes. Lots of people get it at the supermarket. It's an aerosol spread disease and, if people are walking around in a confined & poorly-ventilated space, you can catch it off them.

The whole 'only place I went was the supermarket' has a lot of morality and rules authoritarianism behind it. Ultimately, most people have to go to the supermarket and they have to go regularly. They assume COVID is caught by people being 'naughty' and breaking rules and, thus, supermarkets are somehow safe.

The reality is that COVID is caught by people inhaling aerosols and droplets containing the virus, and you are more likely to catch COVID in the supermarket or from a child going to school, than you are from meeting six friends on a beach - even though one of these is a 'necessity' and the other is a breach of rules.

However, in terms of your situation, all you know is that someone in the supermarket with you later had a positive COVID test. You have no idea about your exposure to that person - the app can't tell you that.

I would definitely be cautious that you're at risk and could have been exposed, but I wouldn't feel any obligation to immediately self-isolate and not pick up your kids. In honesty, given that schools are poorly-ventilated spaces with no social distancing where large groups spend large amounts of time, I would be more worried about catching COVID from your teenagers than the person in the supermarket.

@FedNlanders

Well I dont know about op but I am the only person that can pick my kids up, so I would have too.

err... or they can't go to school if the one person who can take them there / collect them has to isolate.

Surely as soon as you're in the same room as them (or car) they also have to self isolate? so they won't be able to go to school

No the children only need to isolate if OP is positive.

I have emailed my school and asked them to clarify if they want me to ignore the app or not. Honestly I had even forgotten I had it on my phone but when I got the notification I blindly reacted... it’s not like I’m seeing anyone outside my home at the moment anyway so the only decision is whether I drive to and from school (Lots of posters vehemently telling me I shouldn’t) and go to work (now I have informed them I will let them make the decision) - I wouldn’t have been doing anything between no and next Wednesday anyway (had a walk with a friend planned tomorrow which I have cancelled)

It’s very interesting that so many people think of the app as optional so therefore I should ignore it... it’s really made me question whether I should have it on my phone at all..

@MummytoCSJH

I'm assuming that because you say drive there as opposed to just picking them up you mean waiting in the car for them? So your question is are you allowed to walk outside of your house to your car, get in your car, alone, park outside your children's school and wait for them to come out without ever having contact with anyone outside of your household? Well, I'm sure there are some people here who are unable to use common sense and will say absolutely not even if it means your kids can no longer go or get home from school. All well and good if your children are old enough and close enough to walk there and home alone. Provided you stick to it and don't have contact with anyone, it will be fine. If you mean actually going into school and having contact with other parents, then no.

And yes, some people really do have zero support and absolutely nobody else able to collect or look after their children.

This.

'OP why are you even entertaining the notification you got from this app if you know you have not been in close contact with anyone?It's CLOSE contact - not just oh someone in the supermarket has it because then most of us would be isolating all the time.'

This. I'm a big advocate of following the guidance but not an app. You will be rang if you need to isolate. As you've told your workplace you'll have to stick to it but fgs don't keep your dc off too. Take them and collect as usual.

@MrKlaw

We're a year into this pandemic now. And you dont know this?
The OP has been told to isolate because she was a contact of someone. No one else in her household needs to isolate.
If the OP starts to show symptoms, then and only then, do her family need to isolate while she gets tested. If positive, they all stay isolated. If negative, they can go back out.

How can you not know that? It's been months and months of the same rule.

@Londonwriter - you speak a lot of sense! When I called school I felt I had to justify that I hadn’t been breaking any rules!! I agree that my risks are low so I will let my employer decide how to proceed!

And you’re right about the teens- the only reason I decided to go to the supermarket after months of not going was because I figured that both they snd I are back at school which is a far greater risk!

@petitdonkey

I don’t have anyone to collect them today- they are teens so I don’t need to leave the car. I am guessing that they then can’t go to school for the rest of the time as I can’t justifiably drive them!!

Could that message really just be the case of being near someone in the supermarket??? (It was my first trip to the shop since December!!)

If they are teens, can't they manage themselves for a week? And yes to the supermarket , but I thought you said in your post that you had been at work?

@Londonwriter

The stats show that picking up the virus at a supermarket is in fact very small.

There were some stats which showed that X number of people with the virus had been in a supermarket within X number of days.

However....what the stats didn't show was where else they had also been.

So these people in the supermarket may have been to work, on public transport, or mixing with friends or colleagues.

Yes, the virus is spread by an aerosol effect but in shops most people are wearing masks and many supermarkets are limiting numbers and trying to ensure the 2 mtr rule.

I know it varies hugely and I'd not want to go into a crowded supermarket.

But the reality is that the virus is caught most often within the home or socialising with other people.

As for the OP, picking up your children if you don't get out of you car is sensible. Obviously if you test positive / show symptoms, that's a different scenario.