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Original poster

Sidmouth care home outbreak - why?

74 replies

crunchy37 · 14/03/2021 15:24

I’ve been reading reports that there has been an outbreak of Covid at a care home in Sidmouth and three people have sadly died:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-56372847

According to the report, ‘the "vast majority" of residents and staff had received the first dose of vaccine, which "may have helped prevent an even worse situation".’

So why has this happened and why is there a police investigation into the outbreak?

This article from just three days ago seems very poignant now Sad

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sidmouth-the-seaside-town-that-covid-forgot-kxjg6qlqf

OP posts:
Return2thebasic · 14/03/2021 15:27

I've read somewhere (scientific advices)...The prolonged gap between doses shouldn't be applied to older people...

Return2thebasic · 14/03/2021 15:27

So sad...

MrsFin · 14/03/2021 15:30

It's happened because someone has taken Covid into the home.
Even 2 vaccines doesn't give 100% immunity. And testing isn't a guarantee of being negative either / especially self testing.

lljkk · 14/03/2021 15:37

By mid April most people in care homes should have had 2nd dose, by end April all should have had 2nd dose (who wanted it). So nearly at 2nd dose time, anyway.

By lowering community prevalence there should have been much lower risk of covid getting in. Even once residents all have 2nd dose there is not a 100% guarantee that 100% of residents or homes will be protected, we all know this, right?

No strategy was going to be perfect.

XenoBitch · 14/03/2021 15:44

Very sad. Why the police involvement though?

Original poster
crunchy37 · 14/03/2021 15:48

Even 2 vaccines doesn't give 100% immunity.

I thought I read that the AZ vaccine gives 100% immunity against serious illness (requiring hospitalization) and death. Did I get that wrong?

Very sad. Why the police involvement though?

I was wondering this too.

OP posts:
Haffiana · 14/03/2021 15:51

I wonder if some of the staff are vaccine refusers...?

Nerdygirl · 14/03/2021 15:57

Happened in Hampshire too

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-hampshire-55840781

A third of the care home wiped out.

XenoBitch · 14/03/2021 15:59

@Haffiana

I wonder if some of the staff are vaccine refusers...?
Even if they are, it does not mean they are responsible for the outbreak.
Original poster
crunchy37 · 14/03/2021 16:01

I’ve no idea what the reason is for this particular outbreak, but I do think it should be compulsory for everyone who works in a care home or other healthcare setting to have the vaccine.

OP posts:
Toasty280 · 14/03/2021 16:19

There's no dates given but I thought is it linked to allowing visitors in? But then if it was that would be really rapid as they only were allowed in from last Monday so not even a week

You can't make vaccines compulsory for certain groups e.g. Healthcare / care staff

FlyingBurrito · 14/03/2021 16:21

I don't think the why is a mystery, someone with covid entered the home and came into contact with residents

Police involvement is however unusual

NuclearDH · 14/03/2021 16:26

Another one here who doesn’t understand why there’s a police investigation if it’s just a simple covid outbreak. They’re not known for being leading epidemiologists. I could understand public health, etc investigation but police is a bit odd.

starfish4 · 14/03/2021 16:31

Some residents may well have been vaccine refusers.

It only takes one person to transmit, forget to sanitize hands on entry.

FishWithoutABike · 14/03/2021 16:34

Had the people who died had the vaccine?

SchoolShirt · 14/03/2021 16:34

One thing I noted was that both outbreaks were in areas with low previous case numbers.

ParadiseIsland · 14/03/2021 16:36

@crunchy37

I’ve no idea what the reason is for this particular outbreak, but I do think it should be compulsory for everyone who works in a care home or other healthcare setting to have the vaccine.
Well.... only when we will have had the proof that having the vaccine stops TRANSMISSION. Otherwise it’s pointless.
NameChangedForThisFeb21 · 14/03/2021 16:39

You’ve got to remember that care homes can

  • have high staff turnover

  • have high residents turn over

  • under some circumstances were not able to have the vaccine administered at the same time as the majority of other care homes in the area (ie if there was a significant outbreak earlier)

  • do not care for JUST elderly residents

So for example, you could have staff have started at the care home after the official vaccination programme, or residents be admitted after the vaccinators had been in (and if they were under 70 the likelihood is that they wouldn’t have been vaccinated in the community), agency staff have sometimes been turned away at primary care facilities.

It’s not a simple case of 80 of the exact same residents and 25 of the exact same staff have been in that home for the past few months and ALL consented to the vaccine. Staff and residents come and go, not every is able to or wants to have the vaccine.

An example I know is that there is only ONE single home in the entire Lancashire authority were all staff and residents consented to the vaccine and received it. There was a lot of scaremongering around fertility etc and in some homes only 30% of staff consented to receive the vaccine. Two homes completely refused (I’ve no idea how they got away with this) and both had large outbreaks. I can imagine in a case like this, if proprietors stalled or refused access to vaccinators or relied heavily on unvaccinated agency staff and there was a significant outbreak resulting in deaths then police would investigate the negligence. I know of far less serious issues in care homes that have resulted in corporate manslaughter charges being brought against owners.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 14/03/2021 16:39

It seems entirely likely that people were already infected when they had their vaccine or became so shortly afterwards.

A totally shit coincidence. And that won't stop someone feeling guilty or someone else from trying to assign blame.

ParadiseIsland · 14/03/2021 16:40

@starfish4

Some residents may well have been vaccine refusers.

It only takes one person to transmit, forget to sanitize hands on entry.

The virus is mainly transmitted through aerosols in the air. No from contact. Hand washing I will have a lower impact than opening Windows. About 50% of transmission is from asymptomatic people too.

If it raises questions it’s about the efficacy of the vaccine.
And. A potential increase of asymptomatic transmission

WeatherwaxLives · 14/03/2021 16:41

I'm perplexed by the Police involvement too, it's the Public Protection Unit, which seems to be the dept that works with SS.
I can't think what crime could possibly be involved?!

notrub · 14/03/2021 16:42

@XenoBitch

Very sad. Why the police involvement though?
Three people are dead and the number could yet rise.

You think they should just assume everything's fine??

It's highly likely that nothing untoward occurred, but we DO need to check these things, otherwise we risk more Shipleys.

MrsTerryPratchett · 14/03/2021 16:43

@WeatherwaxLives

I'm perplexed by the Police involvement too, it's the Public Protection Unit, which seems to be the dept that works with SS. I can't think what crime could possibly be involved?!
Deliberate transmission?
WeatherwaxLives · 14/03/2021 16:44

I get that, and I totally agree. Except three have been countless outbreaks that have resulted in deaths and this is the first time I've seen reports of police investigation. Have I missed other similar reports?

Haffiana · 14/03/2021 16:45

Well.... only when we will have had the proof that having the vaccine stops TRANSMISSION.
Otherwise it’s pointless.

I don't know who the 'we' you are referring to might be. The rest of us have already seen AGES AGO the evidence that it is effective at slowing and preventing transmission. You could try looking at any reputable news source.

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