Ireland halting the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine

[Kaylasmum49]

This just came up on my phone. I had the AZ vaccine 10 days ago. I'm concerned about the news of blood clotting issues.

As yet, there is absolutely no evidence of it being a direct vaccine side effect remember - it's either normal background level of clots that sadly always happen, or having a vaccine causes the body's immune response to precipitate clots that were already forming.

@minchinfin

As yet, there is absolutely no evidence of it being a direct vaccine side effect remember - it's either normal background level of clots that sadly always happen, or having a vaccine causes the body's immune response to precipitate clots that were already forming.

Evidence for that declaration is I'm sure coming from your extensive inside information and research?

ok, I'll bite, let's see your evidence that it is then please?

I’m a bit cynical about this tbh. It’s interesting that the EU were slow to approve AZ, then countries wouldn’t use it for over 65s, then they are up in arms re supply, and now it’s suspended....

I feel like there’s something political in the background of all of this.

@minchinfin

ok, I'll bite, let's see your evidence that it is then please?

I haven't clicked into any links. It's purely announcements that various governments around the world are halting the rollout while they investigate further. But you declare two possible causes which you could not possibly know or prove. Stop talking shite.

@Luckystar1

I’m a bit cynical about this tbh. It’s interesting that the EU were slow to approve AZ, then countries wouldn’t use it for over 65s, then they are up in arms re supply, and now it’s suspended....

I feel like there’s something political in the background of all of this.

It's not just the EU who have stopped it, I think Pakistan and other countries have too. I didn't click on the links unfortunately. I haven't seen anything come up about EU countries involved.

I never thought to mention the death of my mother 30 years ago. I wasn't asked if I was on any blood thinning medication. It has never been suggested that I take aspirin.

I went for my vaccine with trepidation and actually posted about my concerns and those of my daughter about me having the vaccine and I was totally set upon by a large number of posters, so much so that my thread was taken down. I'm sure I am not the only one that will be feeling concerned about the latest news of the AstraZeneca vaccine.

www.cnbc.com/2021/03/12/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-suspended-in-some-countries-over-blood-clot-fears.html

I think the risks are unknown as yet. I'm not rushing to the top of the queue to get it. I'll wait politely behind lol to ensure that everyone doesn't suddenly start dropping like flies.

Silverandgoldsparkles

Lol, don't understand the word possible?

Any medic or scientist will understand the mechanisms behind blood clots and how an immune system response might POSSIBLY be involved in accelerating/causing them. But, as you have so eloquently pointed out, nobody knows for sure as there is, as yet, no evidence either way, just an observation that some people that have had the AZ vaccine have had blood clots, just as some people that have had the Pfizer vaccine have had blood clots, and some people that have had covid have had blood clots. Can you see the common link?

@Luckystar1

I’m a bit cynical about this tbh. It’s interesting that the EU were slow to approve AZ, then countries wouldn’t use it for over 65s, then they are up in arms re supply, and now it’s suspended....

I feel like there’s something political in the background of all of this.

I am cynical too. There have been reports of possible adverse events with all the vaccines:

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-ema-bleeding/eu-regulator-investigates-covid-vaccines-for-link-to-bleeding-disorder-idUSKBN2B41U5

but AZ is the one getting the most attention. It is also the only vaccine that is currently supplied on a not for profit basis...Johnson and Johnson will also be not for profit but has only just been approved I think.

@Luckystar1

I’m a bit cynical about this tbh. It’s interesting that the EU were slow to approve AZ, then countries wouldn’t use it for over 65s, then they are up in arms re supply, and now it’s suspended....

I feel like there’s something political in the background of all of this.

Yes I think so too. Blame deflecting is my guess. Our vaccine roll out is slow because of concerns about the vaccine. Not our vaccine roll out is slow because we mucked up our order and don't have enough.

@minchinfin

Silverandgoldsparkles

Lol, don't understand the word possible?

Any medic or scientist will understand the mechanisms behind blood clots and how an immune system response might POSSIBLY be involved in accelerating/causing them. But, as you have so eloquently pointed out, nobody knows for sure as there is, as yet, no evidence either way, just an observation that some people that have had the AZ vaccine have had blood clots, just as some people that have had the Pfizer vaccine have had blood clots, and some people that have had covid have had blood clots. Can you see the common link?

Are you a medic or scientist?

I agree that it is hard to understand just why AZ is coming under so much pressure if there isn't some commercial plus political forces at play.

The actual evidence doesn't support there being any huge number of serious events at present, and very certainly the risk of catching the virus and having an adverse health event (or yes, even the risk of getting in their cars!) is much, much, much greater.

I just cannot understand how some people struggle to understand this.

I'm a scientist, not that it's relevant. You have no idea who anyone is or isn't on the internet or who is pretending - people should be able to evaluate risk irrespective.

@MRex

I've looked up the MHRA yellow cards reporting. It's available to everyone here: www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting.

About 100 cases linked to stroke or embolism from each of Pfizer BioNTec and Oxford Astrazeneca if you tot up across all categories, a few more reported for Pfizer than for Oxford.
Call it 230 from 23 million doses. That's 1 per 100,000. You'd normally expect 1 in 10,000 per year, so in 3 months of vaccination that's 1 in 30,000.
It's actually lower risk for vaccinated people than unvaccinated. Good news!

ADRs are under reported. The yellow card scheme is great but it won’t be entirely accurate. I hope they can get an answer soon. At least there are other vaccine options available so they can keep vaccinating the more vulnerable groups while this is being investigated.

@Kaylasmum49

minchinfin I am actually overweight due to a condition called lipoedema and due to severe depression and anxiety over the last few years my activity levels have been very low. I don't smoke. My mum died from a stroke aged 45. I am very concerned about this news.

Your concern is misplaced.

The "overweight" situation has nothing to do with the vaccine. Weight is a risk factor in the blood clots. Whether or not you have the vaccine will make no difference there.

It's similar to if a bunch of people were injured in road traffic accidents after having the vaccine. Someone might comment that they were cyclists. That DOESN'T mean that if a cyclist had the vaccine they were more likely to be in a road traffic accident - it's just a fact that cyclists are more likely to be injured than car drivers.

However, while clearly most people would have little difficulty believing that car accidents and vaccination is unrelated, it's tougher with a medical condition. In this case regulators want to see PROOF that there IS no connection, even if the evidence suggests there isn't.

So you have a choice - believe the connection is real, in which case your odds of having a fatal blood clot following vaccination are something like 1 in 30,000,000 vs your risk of dying from covid - you've underlying conditions so could be as high as 1 in 100. Or don't believe there's a connection.

Either way, it's a bit of a no-brainer really.

@Grimbelina

I agree that it is hard to understand just why AZ is coming under so much pressure if there isn't some commercial plus political forces at play.

The actual evidence doesn't support there being any huge number of serious events at present, and very certainly the risk of catching the virus and having an adverse health event (or yes, even the risk of getting in their cars!) is much, much, much greater.

I just cannot understand how some people struggle to understand this.

It's not the general public spouting nonsense and refusing the vaccine, it's governments who are suspending the use pending further investigation.

I just cannot understand how some people struggle to understand THAT.

Is it spin to help them secure supplies of the next lot of vaccines to be approved maybe? So they can appear more in need over other countries because they "can't" use their stockpiles of AZ vaccine, that many other non European countries don't even have yet?

I'm very glad that you went for the vaccine @Kaylasmum49. But the posts you have made before, and now this one, push you perilously close to anti-vaxx territory.

Perhaps think, and do some research, before you post stuff like this again?

We need to be encouraging people to have the vaccine, not putting them off.

@HeronLanyon

I’m having mine in about an hour ! I did hear bbc podcast ‘more or less’ on this issue and was reassured hearing medical statisticians discussing the figures. Also the most recent episode was interesting on obesity/Covid headlines and what the underlying figures actually mean. Good luck everyone. Still absolutely over the moon to be having my vaccination. I’ve even ironed something - largely given up ironing entirely.

Can I ask what the gist of it was about obesity please? I’m obese and have developed severe anxiety to the point that I now believe that if I catch it I’m a goner

@minchinfin

I'm a scientist, not that it's relevant. You have no idea who anyone is or isn't on the internet or who is pretending - people should be able to evaluate risk irrespective.

Oh I think I know who is pretending alright.

LOL

Seriously though, get your vaccine, this is misplaced worry.

@minchinfin

Silverandgoldsparkles

Lol, don't understand the word possible?

Any medic or scientist will understand the mechanisms behind blood clots and how an immune system response might POSSIBLY be involved in accelerating/causing them. But, as you have so eloquently pointed out, nobody knows for sure as there is, as yet, no evidence either way, just an observation that some people that have had the AZ vaccine have had blood clots, just as some people that have had the Pfizer vaccine have had blood clots, and some people that have had covid have had blood clots. Can you see the common link?

What an interesting writing style. Virchow described causes of thrombosis in 1856. That doesn't mean covid has been around since 1856, it means that there are many causes of blood clotting. It isn't scientific to assume a link just because you wrote the list, scientists did research and look at the balance of probabilities. Right now those seem thankfully to be low in the UK. I don't know what tracking is done in the EU to know if it can be relied upon in the same way, but the rates look low so far and the EMA seem unconcerned so far.

I had the AZ vaccine and my normally low bp was too high for a few days afterwards, logically that's because I was...ill with a virus...

I think I will refuse the second one.