Will lots just say 'stuff it' come the 23rd?

[JuneSummer]

It'll soon be a year since lockdown was first called and me and DH have been watching lots of TV coverage over the last few days. It's just dawned on us this week that we have now not seen our parents for a year, the DC haven't hugged their grandparents, we haven't been for any days out as a family, DC1 hasn't had a single uni class in person. The list goes on.

DH and I are now quickly coming to the conclusion that we just cannot and will not go on living like this any longer as a family. Particularly when there seems to be no end in sight if you listen to people like Chris Whitty and Christina Pagel (who was wanting masks and social distancing for the foreseeable future last night on the news).

Both sets of parents are in their mid 60s and have been vaccinated. We are now strongly minded to visit both at the beginning of April and allow them to see their DGC.

I suspect we will not be alone. Will lots of people simply say 'no more' upon realising they've spent a year of their lives not living?

We’re not saying there’s no protection from the first vaccination though are we? Astra Zeneca is 76% for the first dose which is far better than most flu jabs...
The second dose is a bit like a booster.

You can’t argue that 24 million people having an effective (76%) first jab amounts to nothing and will have no effect on hospitalisations and deaths.

You are right that most people are not FULLY vaccinated. That’s it.

@stylish mummy This is ridiculous behaviour, the jab doesn't make you immune it just means you will have less symptoms. Let's hope your ignorant family and friends don't pass the virus to someone who hasn't had the vaccine weh. And for your information, I know more people who have stuck to the rules than I know of those who have broke them

@Racoonworld
Do what you will. Suppose I should be grateful for people with your mindset for being considerate for a year. It’s a year I wouldn’t have had to look after my kids snd dp, you know the normal, housework, cooking, cleaning, washing, bedtime stories.

Don’t know how he will ever cope when I catch Covid and die. I do everything for everyone in this house, kids will be brought up on mcds and toast, but heyho, people miss their family and want to get back to normal.

Sounds harsh but for me that is the reality. Sorry

@Delatron

We’re not saying there’s no protection from the first vaccination though are we? Astra Zeneca is 76% for the first dose which is far better than most flu jabs... The second dose is a bit like a booster.

You can’t argue that 24 million people having an effective (76%) first jab amounts to nothing and will have no effect on hospitalisations and deaths.

You are right that most people are not FULLY vaccinated. That’s it.

No I'm not arguing that.

I'm arguing that in the gap between where we are and 100% of the population vaccinated with 100% effective vaccines is the potential for a third wave and a fourth and fifth lockdown.

And until we close that gap as much as we possibly can, with everyone possible fully vaccinated, giving up on the NPIs is probably how the third wave starts.

And you wouldn't think that people who feel lockdown has been particularly hard on them would want to contribute to setting up another one.

There is a vast difference with people bending the rules due to ‘exacerbated MH’ issues to get a but of support and just doing what the fuck you like because you fancy having four households over because ‘enough is enough!’ and other such shit.

I'm arguing that in the gap between where we are and 100% of the population vaccinated with 100% effective vaccines

You don't need that and you will never get that.

With herd immunity there's a relationship between % immunised, the extent to which "immunity" stops you infecting others and the natural value of R for the virus (i.e. in the absence of social distancing measures).

I've seen calculations for Covid that reckon we'd have herd immunity with as little as 60% protection, although that was before the Kent strain - since that is more infectious, you'd need a higher %. The vaccines are also not perfect at preventing people spreading it. I suspect you'd probably need about 70-80% coverage ideally. The more the better though as that gives us better insulation against new strains entering the nation from abroad.

@notrub

I'm arguing that in the gap between where we are and 100% of the population vaccinated with 100% effective vaccines

You don't need that and you will never get that.

With herd immunity there's a relationship between % immunised, the extent to which "immunity" stops you infecting others and the natural value of R for the virus (i.e. in the absence of social distancing measures).

I've seen calculations for Covid that reckon we'd have herd immunity with as little as 60% protection, although that was before the Kent strain - since that is more infectious, you'd need a higher %. The vaccines are also not perfect at preventing people spreading it. I suspect you'd probably need about 70-80% coverage ideally. The more the better though as that gives us better insulation against new strains entering the nation from abroad.

Yes.

@Workinghardeveryday sorry you feel like that, I honestly am sorry that some people are more at risk from this. But from my point of view there has always been people who are more at risk from certain illnesses, we can’t shut everything down forever because of this one virus and the virus isn’t going away. How long do you expect people not to see their families for? Given that covid will always be circulating in the population?

How long do you expect people not to see their families for? Given that covid will always be circulating in the population?

I have to agree with @Racoonworld here, there has to be a point where we resume just a tiny bit of our lives back, it can not and should not continue the way we are although I'm of the opinion such restrictions with immediate family should never have been in the first place I see my Parents and in laws regularly I don't feel guilty for that whatsoever, call me selfish call me whatever you want but the honest truth is I find it selfish of others to expect me to forego this contact for the sake of strangers for such a long period of time. I've not seen friends except for the occasional walk, I've not seen extended family since last year, my dc haven't had any friends in the house like they used too. I am making sacrifices for the greater good and will continue to do so but some sacrifices are a step to far now.

@Racoonworld @ Wellbythebloodyhell
I understand what you are saying. I miss seeing my family too, miss my kids seeing their friends. Feel so guilty my family have shielding to protect me for over a year.
You’re both right why do it for strangers I suppose. I honestly feel so utterly fed up of living in fear of Covid. I should do everyone a favour and go and live on my own in the middle of nowhere. Not being nasty at all, but I already feel like I am in prison and suppose today feeling sorry for myself

How long do you expect people not to see their families for? Given that covid will always be circulating in the population?

This is the bottom line. Most people aren’t throwing house parties or anything.
They want to see their families. It’s been a year (with some breaks), they’ve given plenty no matter how you spin it.

I said stuff it ages ago. Obviously I can't go to places that are closed but I'm not going to stop seeing my family. That's one sacrifice I refuse to make.

I've also done and continue to do everything I can to stay slim fit and mentally and physically healthy throughout in order that I God willing do not become a burden in the NHS

Perhaps you can be the next Captain Tom. I wont be bothering the Church of the NHS for myself unless i am in pain. Sarah Harding has always been very slim and fit btw. Had to ring NHS 111 on Saturday night at 9.30pm as my 84 year old dad had abdominal pain. Waited for an hour than no callback so Dad asked me to dial 999 Same outcome , Call back only. Which finally happened at 2am.

People arent burdens They are patients. Horrible turn of phrase.

A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members

Yes including the thousands who died after their disability benefits had been cut. People cared so much about it they kept voting Tory. And the subject didnt get a whole board to itself either.

And yet it is abiding by it that has brought the figures down so much. If there is another lockdown ( my gut feeling is there will be around November) then l guess most people will abide by it. I will

Of course. I think most people will expect those of us lower down the socio economic scale, who never go abroad, (1986 was the last time i did) to keep locking down over the winter and sacrificing our family Christmases to enable those who can afford to/and those who actually like summer to go abroad during the summer months. Doesnt it warm the cockles of your heart. Bless!!!

@BonnieDundee @Londonmummy66 I find the whole ad campaign and the way they behaved (especially in the run up to Christmas) psychologically abusive.

This country does not have a decent enough infrastructure to cope with a lockdown (see eon security hack where ppl were left without electric) lack of wifi and internet for children for home learning because some cant afford it.

They lock us down and instead of acknowledging the sacrifices we make they shit on us or add to the mental load. The bloody census could have been postponed till next year. THEY are happy to carry on like there isnt a pandemic with their magic non growing hair and only giving us a matter of days to fill a census in as if there isnt a lockdown and like its normal times Filled ours in tonight. But what about ppl who might need help filling it in. How are they going to find that help in a a matter of days and b. in a lockdown.
They want it all ways and im fucking fed up with the psychological abuse and the gaslighting.
A long time ago i was in a emotionally and financially abusive relationship and i find this worse. I walked away from him I didnt live with him fortunately. I cant walk away from this. Its everywhere. On posters on the TV in newspapers.

I remember playing that game as a child where if you avoided the cracks in the pavement bad luck/illness wouldnt befall you. Never in my wildest dreams did i think i would be forced to play it in my town centre as an adult!!

Christ, no. Ill still be sticking to the rules I think for a while after they've lifted. But I'm not very sociable 😁

I find the whole ad campaign and the way they behaved (especially in the run up to Christmas) psychologically abusive.

A long time ago i was in a emotionally and financially abusive relationship and i find this worse. I walked away from him I didnt live with him fortunately. I cant walk away from this

Yes. We have spoken about this at home and concluded its like being in an abusive relationship with the government. And you cant leave. Especially the getting some freedoms back or the promise of them. Then taken away again.

Also vaccines are.the.way out of this v the vaccine.doesnt stop you getting or transmitting the disease. You'll still need to follow The Rules. These are exactly the tactics a psychological abuser would use

I'm so done with it. It feels so dystopian

@MercyBooth yes I actually agree with that. They way this has been done is appalling. Scare tactics to make the non-vulnerable terrified so they will abide by the rules. Then that worked too well so they had to back track in summer so that people would go out and spend money. Then people enjoyed themselves too much so back into lockdown. But It's ok because if you abide by lockdown for a month you can have Christmas with family. Oh no wait you can't, we will cancel it 5 days before.

I think Christmas was what broke a lot of people, to cancel it completely for some areas and not others so close to it when all plans had been finalised was devastating. I decided the date I was going to see family again after that.

If there is another lockdown ( my gut feeling there will be by November) then I guess most people will abide by it

I think the opposite to be honest, by November everyone will of been offered a vaccine well before then and the majority of people have or will take that up, if the NHS is looking like Its going to be overwhelmed and lockdown looms again then it's time for the government to properly fund the NHS to ensure that doesn't happen. Joe Public have done enough by this point, lockdowns after we've been vaccinated should not be an option. If the vaccines don't work then its time to suck it up and get on with it, survival of the fittest, and I say that as someone with underlying health conditions. The focus needs to shift to how we get the NHS fully functioning whilst people simultaneously lead fully functioning lives.

-I think the opposite to be honest, by November everyone will of been offered a vaccine well before then and the majority of people have or will take that up

Except for those who can’t take it, or for whom it doesn’t work. Or the under 18’s. All capable of catching and spreading. Or the virus may escape the vaccine.

I think we’ll be in lockdown in November too.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

-I think the opposite to be honest, by November everyone will of been offered a vaccine well before then and the majority of people have or will take that up

Except for those who can’t take it, or for whom it doesn’t work. Or the under 18’s. All capable of catching and spreading. Or the virus may escape the vaccine.

I think we’ll be in lockdown in November too.

Those most likely to need NHS services as a result of covid will have been offered it. The number of under 18s needing hospital care due to covid have been tiny. If the vaccine doesn't work then it's time to give up! We don't have any other weapons in our arsenal to fight it. Life in and out of rolling lockdown is not a life at all! As a country we don't have a never ending pot of money, at some point the economy will have to be prioritised to ensure our health services aren't cut even further than they already have been. By staying home ,letting businesses collapse and not contributing to the economy the worse our NHS becomes

I really don't think there will be a winter lockdown. I think cases will rise and covid will be around more, but hospitalisations and deaths will be lower than this winter because the majority (yes I know not all) of the old and vulnerable will be vaccinated. There is a booster planned for autumn for variants so not too worried about that either.

It will probably mean that those who are vulnerable and aren't vaccinated may need or want to shield but the rest of us shouldn't have to at that point, we can probably get by with minor restrictions such as masks in public for a couple of months. I most definitely won't be stopping seeing people again anyway.