9 out of 20 students in my class are apparently exempt from mask wearing

[Workyticket]

Taught them in a small room with a slit of a window for 1.5 hours

6 of those 9 had chosen not to take a lateral flow test because their Mum said they didn't have to

Schools and colleges are safe though. Apparently

This is for children age 3 all the way up to 18 btw

A three-year-old has to wear a mask?!? That is so sad

You still haven't addressed the misinformation you gave about the Danish mask study, Vintage

noblegiraffe
Sadly I know many teachers in a similar position. It's why it's particularly annoying to hear that our classrooms are fine, keep your distance as 'best you can', it's low risk, stop complaining as you're unlikely to die.

@noblegiraffe

You still haven't addressed the misinformation you gave about the Danish mask study, Vintage

Will come back and do - reading the other studies linked to by the other posters then I will look up the Danish one again!

Day 2. Half a year sent home to isolate

Well those mums can’t complain when they are home schooling again later this year then!

97% of the kids at my child's school took the LF flow test and I've been told almost all children are wearing masks.

In France since the schools went back some time ago. Guess how many teachers have died from CV19 ?

@LolaSmiles

noblegiraffe Sadly I know many teachers in a similar position. It's why it's particularly annoying to hear that our classrooms are fine, keep your distance as 'best you can', it's low risk, stop complaining as you're unlikely to die.

Yes, me too. One of the teachers at my school has been unable to return having caught covid many months ago and others have needed far longer than 2 weeks off to recover. Some have come back, then needed to go off again. We also have children with parents and relatives who have died or been in hospital with covid.

So it is pretty stupid to describe people with reasonable concerns having observed what's going on around them (or in your case, experienced personally) as 'panicking'.

@Worknoplay

Parents: MY child doesn't want to wear the PE kit because it's itchy. He'll wear his own ADIDAS branded clothes. MY child wants to take the later bus and will be late every morning. MY child doesn't want to do the LFT because it makes her eyes water and ruins her make up. MY child, MY child. Then we wonder why kids don't want to stick to the rules and are not ready for work when they come out of school.

Stick to the rules. Your child is not special.

Parents have every right to question the dress codes. There’s so many threads about it (particularly with girls’ clothing).

Personally, I think it would be so much better if we just asked children to wear masks if they have an active cold or cough.

So the DANMASK study did look at Sars-Cov-2.

They studied whether mask wearers V. non-mask wearers were more likely to catch Covid - the difference they found was 1.9% compared to 2.1% (non maskers). I think it has been acknowledged all along that masks provide no protection to the wearer (unless FFP3.)

It is true that they didn't set out to study whether mask wearers protected others, and that is stated in the piece i.e. source control.

So yes that study does not comment on effects on transmission - absence of evidence just means it hasn't been studied and further RCT's - and RCT's in the community not healthcare settings - are needed.

Worth bearing in mind that this is one of very very few RCT's on the subject and most other studies involve observational qualitative evidence, plus computer type modelling that really needs experts to scrutinise effectively. eg the code used in Fergusons study etc.

The whole thing needs more study. Researchers need to provide strong evidence an intervention works. It's how medicine works, the standard of proof needs to be high. Researchers need to have looked for potential contraindications/side effects and no-one is looking for those re. masks.

And works in the environment you apply it to - eg in the community rather than a more controlled atmosphere like a hospital.

eg dialysis machines work to dialyse, but could you apply them to community settings - no of course not!

The vast majority of students at my son's secondary school are wearing them. Although they do find it interferes with learning and cannot be heard properly.

We are in an area with an incredibly low rate of infection. Currently it would be very difficult to actually meet someone with covid since under 10 in 100,000 - yet still people are panicking. The fear narrative worked too well - time to get some sense of perspective back again now.

Sorry to hear that OP. My DDs college have written masks since September and been mostly compliant. There's one girl in my DDs class who - - can't-- doesn't but Dd sees her wearing one on the bus

"People give such extreme examples in defence of non-mask wearing."

People are still making comments about no one having a reason for exemption when legally (and just using common sense regarding some severe disabilities) will tell them that there must be. I am pleased to see that mumsnet is now deleting that type of comment.

It is true that they didn't set out to study whether mask wearers protected others

A pretty big omission, don't you think?

Researchers need to provide strong evidence an intervention works. It's how medicine works, the standard of proof needs to be high

This isn't medicine. Do you think that every other country has got it wrong on mask wearing?

"It's only on Mumsnet that I see abject panic and hysteria."

Schools have been back for a mere few days and the usual names are on constantly on the threads with their panic. Do they have time to actually do any work? Covid has been around for over a year now and one would imagine with the life threatening conditions they work in, being thrown under the bus constantly etc etc etc that they would have had covid by now!

"There is limited and weak evidence for face masks."

Then why have so many South Asian countries, which insist on mask wearing, managed to keep case and death rates far below those of the UK and other mask hating countries?

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30352-0/fulltext

@Clutterbugsmum

My children haven't and will not do LF Tests, they all have strong gag reflexes as in they all gag (as do I) when cleaning their back teeth. But they all know they have to wear their mask while in school unless they are eating or drinking an they are happy to do so.

I’m surprised you didn’t you get your dcs to at least try? My dd tried and she gets a lot worse side effects than gagging.

How about you read Lola's post of 11:53, Alice?

@noblegiraffe

It is true that they didn't set out to study whether mask wearers protected others

A pretty big omission, don't you think?

Researchers need to provide strong evidence an intervention works. It's how medicine works, the standard of proof needs to be high

This isn't medicine. Do you think that every other country has got it wrong on mask wearing?

Well its only the first RCT that has been done since Covid and (I think ) the second or third one ever so it cant cover everything. Most studies do take one question and test that. Then if there are other areas that need study they suggest them in their conclusion for further research. Thats pretty standard practise.

Perhaps, for example, there isn't a mechanism available to reliably study that question? This could be the case - in which case someone needs to invent one, publish the methodology etc. It's a long process and we might see someone do that in the future.

Masks are an intervention, we just cant say definitively that they are an evidence based as opposed to an anecdotal interventional.

For what its worth yes I am of the opinion that other countries have got it wrong - no other country with a strict mask mandate has avoided a second wave of a virus that is seasonal. Peru has had a strict mask mandate since early last year - they have fared worse than Brazil in deaths per million etc. Loads of interesting stats out there re. excess deaths, deaths per million, deaths relating to obesity, most curves are very similar country to country regardless of the strictness of their mask mandates etc.

Worth a look up and a dig around if you have time. We might well have decreased our Covid death rates if as a country we were a bit less obese and generally a bit healthier. Now that would provide evidence of community spirit to me!

Plus as a complete aside - the plastic waste generated and the effect on the environment! Even reusable masks need energy to wash then separately on high settings - the waste of resources for an unproven intervention is definitely not good for society.

I'm sure there are other things that Asian countries do differently beside mask wearing. Their climates and seasons are different, tracing and isolation has been different, and their population has been exposed to different coronaviruses in the past.

Well its only the first RCT that has been done since Covid

Yes but you used it as a major point in trying to convince people that masks are useless, when in fact it only examined a small part of mask wearing (and badly, tbh, as the authors acknowledge).

[quote andyoldlabour]"There is limited and weak evidence for face masks."

Then why have so many South Asian countries, which insist on mask wearing, managed to keep case and death rates far below those of the UK and other mask hating countries?

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30352-0/fulltext[/quote]
Lots of theories about this - cross immunity and T cell memory, healthier populations, rates of obesity, methods of reporting, age profiles, population profiles, the relative isolation of the country, effective tracing (Hi Dido!), inter- generational family living or not. And so on and so forth.

Lots and lots of variables - mask wearing is just one, one that people like to seize on to the exclusion of others.

I'm a bit worried, Vintage, that you proudly proclaim that you have done your research and concluded that you know better than all the medical bodies around the world that recommend mask wearing, and yet you seem so unfamiliar with the details of the study that you lauded as a prime piece of evidence that you needed to look it up again to see what it actually said.