Twice weekly lateral flow tests for households of school pupils

[SingANewSongChickenTikka]

This seems a brilliant step forward, twice weekly lateral flow tests for households and bubbles of school staff and school pupils. Posted or ‘click and collect’. Yes the lateral flow tests have their limitations, but it still should help I think.

www.gov.uk/guidance/rapid-lateral-flow-testing-for-households-and-bubbles-of-school-pupils-and-staff

@HipTightOnions

That is a concern. Although with symptoms school will send them home to do PCR.

I wonder if they’ll be sent home if they say “it’s alright, I’ve done a test and it was negative”. Some schools/teachers are pretty clueless about the difference between LFT and PCR tests.

I really hope not! What kind of training happens with the testing - not just those doing it but all staff?

Is it something you’d do on a set day or via meeting (online even)

What about nursery school aged children? My DD is in pre-school but not attached to a school? I’d quite happily do these as my parents are in a bubble with us (DD2 is 11 months) & also provide childcare so I’d feel much happier testing us all each week!

@teenagetantrums

We do these at work. Most people don't do them properly. People can't afford to take time off work. Seems a bit pointless now we all have been fully vaccinated.

I'm sure most people can follow simple instructions. A small number probably don't take the test correctly.

We haven't all been fully vaccinated - over 60s only plus some CEV currently which doesn't help schools, children and parents.

@FlowersAreBeautiful- I think PP means everyone at her work has been vaccinated. I assume NHS or Care Home!

@Donatella
@MrsHerculePoirot
I agree that the above is clear and unambiguous. However elsewhere in the guidance it says

Members of households, childcare or support bubbles of school staff and pupils
This section does NOT apply to secondary school pupils, and primary and secondary school staff, who should take twice-weekly tests using home test kits provided by their school.
(goes on to explain how households get these tests)

I have no idea which is correct. However surely we can all agree that the two different sections contradict themselves?

Unless, it's because it's referring to the staff and secondary aged pupils tests being in another section? If so then I admit I'm wrong but still maintain that the language is not clear which is not helpful.

@MarshaBradyo no training for us!

As a staff we collect our kits, they have instructions and we have also been emailed updated instructions on a pdf. We do them on set days at home twice a week. If positive you then have to book a PCR to check and isolate.

Students will do them three times in school, supervised by those staff that are currently carrying out the testing in school then they will be expected to test twice a week on two set days also. If they receive a positive result they do the same, isolate and book a PCR test.

If a student starts with symptoms in school, same as in Autumn term, we will send them home and ask parents to book them a test. Nothing really has changed, it is just to try and catch a few completely asymptomatic cases and to catch people who are going to show symptoms in 2-3 days time to stop them spreading in those days before symptoms show.

A negative on a LFT does not mean you do not have covid (unlike the PCR tests) it simply means it didn't find evidence you do have it. Someone described it like a pregnancy test where you can get lots of false negatives if you test too early etc. but it is nearly impossible to get false positives so if LFT shows positive then the PCR will confirm that nearly all the time (I think over 97% or something). Does that make sense?

[quote MoirasRoses]@FlowersAreBeautiful- I think PP means everyone at her work has been vaccinated. I assume NHS or Care Home![/quote]
That makes sense!

I was also thinking about it in terms of my workplace at a school where hardly any of us have been vaccinated yet. We take lateral flow tests twice a week and so far everyone seems to be managing fine testing themselves.

So anyone who does these tests are helping to keep schools open which is what we all want. Yes the accuracy may not be brilliant but it's all we've got at the moment.

@Frazzled2207

No! We cannot agree they contradict. The bullet points at the top list everyone that is eligible including households of secondary-age students and staff. This is completely clear.

The bit underneath is telling people where and how they can get these tests if they want them.

It says that these links don't apply to the groups you are naming BECAUSE THEY ARE GETTING THEIR TEST VIA SCHOOL and these links are for the households that ARE NOT GETTING THEIR TESTS VIA THE SCHOOL.

It literally explicitly says that and you have explicitly quoted it?

Members of households, childcare or support bubbles of school staff and pupils
This section does NOT apply to secondary school pupils, and primary and secondary school staff, who should take twice-weekly tests using home test kits provided by their school.
(goes on to explain how households get these tests)

So staff and secondary pupils get their tests in schools everybody else eligible needs to use the links on that document.

I literally have no idea what you cannot see.....

@MrsHerculePoirot
Ok I see what you are saying and how I misinterpreted. But I still maintain that the second quoted section is not clear as it suggests (IMO) that households of staff and secondary aged kids are not eligible for tests.
I’ll agree with your point and am grateful for you taking the time to explain why I’d got it wrong but am still going to stubbornly maintain that it’s not that clear unless taken in wider context.

On a related note I do wonder how this website is going to cope with goodness knows how many parents of primary and secondary kids trying to get hold of tests tomorrow. I wonder if Dido Harding is going to have to say that she “didn’t anticipate the demand” again

Why would we need to do this? Schools are safe.

Our school asked us to test the ordering system. So mine have been ordered and should arrive in the next 2 days. I've been vaccinated but I'll test myself twice a week, won't be testing either of my children if I can help it. One threw up all.over me at the thought of the throat swab, the other is autistic.

@Whatever9999 are they secondary age? My understanding is that you can just do them in both nostrils if they can't do the throat swab. It is however optional for secondary students, so if it isn't going to be feasible then you don't have to do it. Schools obviously want as many as possible doing it, but we know that we won't get 100% and definitely wouldn't expect students it causes huge distress to do it.

@Frazzled2207 yes I can imagine that response from Dido too! I don't know that many parents/households are aware of it yet as the information only was released yesterday. I don't think our school has informed parents for example yet, so maybe it will take a while until it is overwhelmed!

You would hope would you that the system is designed to handle I wonder how many millions of parents trying to get on....
(They mentioned this for the first time before Christmas so can only hope they planned it properly)

@Frazzled2207

it’s not that clear unless taken in wider context.

The wider context of reading the whole page? Is that really beyond so many people when it comes to the safety of their families?

What kind of training happens with the testing - not just those doing it but all staff? Is it something you’d do on a set day or via meeting (online even)

Training is only for staff doing the testing. We’ve been told the tests are 99% effective, and we’ve been encouraged to do them instead of PCR tests if we have symptoms.

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

Does anyone know what the tests involve. DD is happy to do this but is anxious as she has a strong gag reflex and is worried she'll throw up doing it in school.

We are doing them at home, twice a week, and have done two so far.

It will come with a full set of instructions to be read before administering the test.

Once you've opened everything, followed hygiene instructions, you swab each side of your tonsils (or where they were if they've been removed) for a count of 4 (avoiding touching any other part of the mouth), then insert into one nostril until you meet resistance, then twist in a circular motion for a count of 10 circles.

The instructions tell you how to process the sample.

I'll attach a photo of the relevant page of the booklet.

@DumplingsAndStew
Of course I read the whole page. I’m merely stating that it’s fairly easy to misinterpret. Any government guidance should be crystal clear not ambiguous but having had to read government guidance dozens of time over the last year due to it affecting my business it won’t surprise you to learn that the wording has been ambiguous and contradictory several times.

I think it's a good idea. Presumably you still do then even once you've had the first vaccine? My sister (nurse) has and I think she's still doing them twice a week at work

I've had the first vaccine as I'm in receipt of carers allowance

@Frazzled2207

My comment was more general about reading the whole document, not directed at you personally. The page states the plans for pupils many times, before going on to a separate group and specifying pupils are exempt from those details.

I agree that anything from Government should be posted with clarity, but no matter how they word things, there are always going to be those who - either accidentally or deliberately - don't understand, that was very clear with earlier testing guidelines.

@ILookAtTheFloor

They are much likely to pick up symptomatic infections than asymptomatic!

As it happens my sister was completely asymptomatic when she took one and was positive. She lost her taste a week later. I have faith in the lateral flow tests.

You have faith in them and have direct experience of how useful they are, but are planning on not using them properly?!

Why?

Can anyone get the links to show their local test sites and collection sites? Just doesn’t show anything for me but I know there is a lateral flow site near work.

@DumplingsAndStew
Right I see. Agree 100%. However in some parts of the guidance sent to schools which I've had to absorb several times as I work in schools, there have been contradictions within the guidance almost every time. Inevitable perhaps when there's 60 + pages and parts are updated separately, but not unavoidable.

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Why would we need to do this? Schools are safe.

I assume you're trying to make a smart arse comment in some way, we've moved on, what's the point of harkng back all the time?

We are where we are now with the capability of identifying more asymptomatic/pre symptomatic cases, it doesnt matter if we don't get 100% take up or 100% detection every extra case found breaks a possible transmission chain

Is there nothing that posters can't find a negative in?

@WrongKindOfFace

Can anyone get the links to show their local test sites and collection sites? Just doesn’t show anything for me but I know there is a lateral flow site near work.

this link then option 2 takes you to LFT sites. There aren't that many

maps.test-and-trace.nhs.uk/

@WrongKindOfFace

Can anyone get the links to show their local test sites and collection sites? Just doesn’t show anything for me but I know there is a lateral flow site near work.

When I Google “lateral flow test sites near me” I get a list from my local council. If you don't work near where you live replace me with place of work

I know that sounds patronising but how are you not finding them?