Is it fair to say teachers need to be more committed?

[Ladytremain]

www.independent.co.uk/news/education/covid-schools-reopening-ofsted-teachers-b1807935.html

Seems a tad harsh I think

[quote Hellebored]@42isthemeaning "Teaching is just a job, no child's education is worth the life of their teacher"

Although this is true, the risk of death is minimal for younger age groups that working people generally fall into. The risk of death going into work is never nil. Don't want that to sound facetious but it's a risk many teachers and other workers have been happy to accept and surely we've all got to be grateful that hospital workers haven't had that attitude?

I was listening to a piece of the radio the other day about schools in Yemen in the midst of famine and warzone still teaching in bombed out unsafe schools hearing gunshots in the distance. They're doing it for the kids. I think that's bloody amazing and I'd wonder what they'd make of some of the debate that goes on here.[/quote]
Many teachers are over 50.

Many fall into high risk groups.

NHS workers have rightly been vaccinated and rightly have full PPE. Teachers are mostly not vaccinated yet and till now have had little
PPE.

Teachers are in small rooms which are crowded in a way we don't generally see elsewhere in covid times.

I think their concerns are very reasonable. We are not in Yemen, we are just asking the secondary age kids to get tested and wear masks. It really isn't a big deal for sensible kids and parents.

I am not a teacher, I am a doctor.

Wilshaw has always hated teachers, he was absolutely awful as head of OFSTED, to be honest that's the last time moral among teachers was so low in my memory.

TES reported yesterday that 54% of headteachers were considering resigning. We had a shortage of heads before the pandemic. It's very very difficult for schools to run well without a good headteacher. Gavin's speech yesterday on the importance of good discipline won't have helped matters.

Hellebored

I was listening to a piece of the radio the other day about schools in Yemen

Not very committed to your job are you?
Listening to the radio whilst you are at work they should dock your pay.

in the midst of famine and warzone still teaching in bombed out unsafe schools hearing gunshots in the distance. They're doing it for the kids. I think that's bloody amazing and I'd wonder what they'd make of some of the debate that goes on here

Yes lets take something completely unrelated, and spin it so it make teachers in the UK look bad.

Genius,

[quote Hellebored]@42isthemeaning "Teaching is just a job, no child's education is worth the life of their teacher"

Although this is true, the risk of death is minimal for younger age groups that working people generally fall into. The risk of death going into work is never nil. Don't want that to sound facetious but it's a risk many teachers and other workers have been happy to accept and surely we've all got to be grateful that hospital workers haven't had that attitude?

I was listening to a piece of the radio the other day about schools in Yemen in the midst of famine and warzone still teaching in bombed out unsafe schools hearing gunshots in the distance. They're doing it for the kids. I think that's bloody amazing and I'd wonder what they'd make of some of the debate that goes on here.[/quote]
I’m not ‘young’, just miss out on the 1-9 grouping due to age.

I don’t teach in a war zone.

Just want same mitigations in my work pace as others - social distancing and ventilation.

Thank you.

@herecomesthsun but there's testing and masks now and still plenty of teachers not wanting to go back. What about primary schools? There's been calls for schools to be closed all year and an awful lot of damage done.

Most teachers are not over 50 and not in high risk groups, especially in primary schools. I'm not suggesting those most at risk shouldn't have followed advice to shield or work from home but teachers not in those groups have often worked fewer hours (not all, but teachers I know have) at a time of national emergency.

"Teachers are in small rooms which are crowded in a way we don't generally see elsewhere in covid times." Except for buses, factories, call centres, construction sites and hospitals - all with higher mortality from covid.

Teachers can see their job in whatever way they want, but if they're going to pursuade people that they've been in mortal danger in a working environment which has seen no covid cases in a year (as our school and many others have) it's not going to happen.

Also worth noting that teachers and school staff indeed died

ONS has today published its analysis of Covid-related deaths by occupation. It found that 139 teachers, senior education professionals, education advisers and school inspectors died between March 9 and December 29. Over the same period, 46 teaching assistants and educational support assistants died.

Fifty-two of those who died were secondary school teachers, equating to a death rate of 39.2 deaths per 100,000 men and 21.2 deaths per 100,000 women.

These rates were higher than those seen nationally – 31.4 and 16.8 deaths per 100,000 among men and women respectively.

www.google.com/amp/s/schoolsweek.co.uk/ons-covid-death-rate-among-secondary-teachers-above-average-but-not-statistically-significant/amp/

I honestly think most teachers have worked far more hours than normal, we worked through Easter and May half term last year and the amount of time it takes to set up online teaching is far higher than teaching in person.

There's been calls for schools to be closed all year and an awful lot of damage done.

Who by? There's been an awful lot of damage done to the teaching profession by appalling and vicious reporting in the media, often a lot of it just lies, particularly when it comes to the teaching unions.

[quote Hellebored]@herecomesthsun but there's testing and masks now and still plenty of teachers not wanting to go back. What about primary schools? There's been calls for schools to be closed all year and an awful lot of damage done.

Most teachers are not over 50 and not in high risk groups, especially in primary schools. I'm not suggesting those most at risk shouldn't have followed advice to shield or work from home but teachers not in those groups have often worked fewer hours (not all, but teachers I know have) at a time of national emergency.

"Teachers are in small rooms which are crowded in a way we don't generally see elsewhere in covid times." Except for buses, factories, call centres, construction sites and hospitals - all with higher mortality from covid.

Teachers can see their job in whatever way they want, but if they're going to pursuade people that they've been in mortal danger in a working environment which has seen no covid cases in a year (as our school and many others have) it's not going to happen.[/quote]
“Most teachers are not over 50”.

Where’s your evidence? I teach in a secondary school. Most are.

Hellebored

Teachers can see their job in whatever way they want, but if they're going to pursuade people that they've been in mortal danger in a working environment which has seen no covid cases in a year (as our school and many others have) it's not going to happen.

Another twist and spin.

For the most part teachers have said that if you want schools to stay open then teachers must be kept healthy enough to do so.

As for transmission, it was the government that said that schools/pupils were vectors of transmission, that pupils were able to spread the virus at 7 times the normal rate.

but once again this is forgotten when we all go back to school for the mental health and wellbeing of children, whist ignoring the fact that yr 11 and yr 13 are going to be so tested so much in the next month that their mental health and well being is going to suffer.

@wonderstuff it's tragic when anyone dies, it really is. But if we're looking at statistics I note that the URL you've copied does say "not statistically significant"

What if we flip it round. Teachers say that their job is not worth the risk, why is our childrens education and wellbeing plus the livelihoods of all that have lost or quit jobs to homeschool not worth bothering about in return? What about the unsupervised kids injured or parents that have died because they needed to mix with families to cover childcare? I'm not saying it to be alarmist but this pandemic affects everyone but you read these boards and you'd be forgiven for thinking this was a disease and lockdown that only had an impact on this one profession.

Most teachers are not over 50 and not in high risk groups

And yet plenty are.

I'm not suggesting those most at risk shouldn't have followed advice to shield or work from home but teachers not in those groups have often worked fewer hours (not all, but teachers I know have) at a time of national emergency

We don’t work by the hour. You can’t possibly know which teachers are over 50/CV/CEV and what they have and haven’t done. Nor do you know what work might have gone on behind the scenes.

Except for buses, factories, call centres, construction sites and hospitals - all with higher mortality from covid

Buses - behind screens, doors open and closes every few minutes for ventilation. Windows open. People on and off, social distancing, people wear masks.
Call centres - staff are socially distanced, ventilation exists.
Construction sites - masks can be worn, lots of outside work, ventilation.
Hospitals - PPE in place, ventilation, lots of face to face clinics have been cancelled, no visitors reduces contacts.
Factories - will depend on what is being made but some social distancing in place, masks, ventilation.
Schools 32 children in a space made for 28. No social distancing. Up to now, no masks. No ventilation or poor ventilation. No sanctions for people who deliberately cough or spit on others. No sanctions for parents who send in their sick children.

Where would you rather iWork?

@CarrieBlue which workplaces are exempt from H&M legislation you ask? Of course we all know that none are. However you must be naive to think that all workplaces and workers are able to ensure the H&S legislation is adhered to? As I have previously mentioned there are plenty of professions where the working environment is very dangerous and no amount of union action has resulted in changes. To use the same example prison officers have been trying for years to get better working conditions but no one hears about it because it’s ‘behind the wall’ and not in the public domain. They are banned from striking and any previous attempts to ‘withdraw to a place of safety’ have fell on deaf ears and on one I assign was deemed a strike anyway and then ordered by high court to return to work. Similarly, someone has said there are few other professions in confined spaces with no ppe- again have you ever worked a prison landing- can’t open the windows there and certainly can’t restrain someone via social distancing! If we think of the pandemic alone despite the majority of the country clapping on their doorsteps id be mighty suprised if they’d have condoned nhs staff refusing to go on wards because they didn’t have enough or the correct PPE? I could go on but you get the idea.

As for those who suggested children have been taught remotely I’d argue that in my experience at least my child has had work set remotely. There has perhaps been a total of a few hours ‘teaching’ since the start of the year if we are counting the 3 minute long videos of his teaching holding phonics cards up that he’s been sent each day. The rest has been PowerPoint presentations and worksheets which quite frankly I could have found on twinkl myself after a bit of reading of the curriculum. Having a teacher and 2 TAs in class for half the usual class size and still providing such poor home provision......yes perhaps I should rephrase my original point SOME teachers really could have done more!

What more do you want me to do?

In lockdowns I have worked incredible long hours overseeing remote learning, answering parents questions, supporting colleagues who were all working ft in school at these times with full bubbles, acknowledging and approving pupil work amongst other stuff. That's 8:30am until 6/7pm each day plus much of Sunday. I worked throughout 3 week's of school holidays unpaid in lockdown 1 and, as normal, worked some of the summer and October holidays. I'm CV so that's why I was home in lockdown 1. In this lockdown it's mainly my role during lockdown periods, but also my health - made worse my my covid experience.

In autumn term I worked ft doing my normal job under difficult circumstances. Not being in a bubble meant I spent no work time talking to colleagues face to face. I ate lunch alone, had a coffee break alone.

I caught covid when it went through school. I was in hospital as a result and off ill for 7 weeks. Its 4 months on and I'm still not fully better - ongoing health condition developed since catching covid on top on the other issues that made me CV initially. I also have a number of 'long covid' issues.

Not committed enough? I was even approving pupil work and answering parent queries from a hospital bed!

As for those who suggested children have been taught remotely I’d argue that in my experience at least my child has had work set remotely. There has perhaps been a total of a few hours ‘teaching’ since the start of the year if we are counting the 3 minute long videos of his teaching holding phonics cards up that he’s been sent each day. The rest has been PowerPoint presentations and worksheets which quite frankly I could have found on twinkl myself after a bit of reading of the curriculum. Having a teacher and 2 TAs in class for half the usual class size and still providing such poor home provision......yes perhaps I should rephrase my original point SOME teachers really could have done more!

So what have you done about it?

Oh and believe me, being rushed to a and e with a very real risk of stroke or heart attack and having to go in alone, after saying goodbye to dh and dd - that wasn't fun. I was okay in the end - hence posting.

But yeah, I can't show much more commitment to my work tbh.

@ChloeDecker

A large number of teachers at my child’s school threw their section 44 notices in at the start of January meaning that even before a national order to close came out school was going to open only to keyworker/ vulnerable anyway. That was frankly a kick in the teeth for those parents who work frontline and have done so for the past year with no possibility whatsoever to cry off that they felt unsafe.

Rather simplifying what was actually very complex at the time, with a ‘national order’ to close most schools including a lot of primary schools at the time, with a scary new variant running riot.
Denying people a right to want a safer place to work does not show you in a good light. That day the government closed all schools anyway so they agreed that they were causing cases to rise, overwhelming the NHS.

A vast majority of teachers have already worked for free, in their holidays to look after keyworker children for free but as usual, it looks like this is quickly forgotten and dismissed.

And many parents who have worked ‘frontline’ all year have indeed shouted load and clear about their request for safer work places, including balloting to strike, yes, even those in the NHS. You can Google this and check webpages such as Unite and Unison for evidence.
And quite right too. It is shameful the conditions that they have had to work in.
It’s just not picked up by most people and in their radar because some people do like to have a good teacher bash.

Sorry what is simplifying? They were told to hand in a notice and they did despite round here rates being almost 500 per 100,000 lower than they had been through October and November when they hadn’t decided they felt unsafe? I’m not denying anyone a right I am simply saying some perspective is needed. As for that good light well it must be the same one that’s shining on the teachers at my child’s school and not showing their profession in a good light hence why I think perspective is needed.

You’ll note I didn’t say that other frontline workers hadn’t ‘shouted’ about it what I said was they hadn’t cried off- they may have balloted but I didn’t see them nurses/ police/ security officers/ prison staff/ bus drivers etc downing tools and refusing to return to work unless they had half the patients/ people at their workplaces or saying they would only work from home?

Having a teacher and 2 TAs in class for half the usual class size and still providing such poor home provision......

They are still working on site. Being asked to do two jobs: teaching in school and at home. Doing many other tasks behind the scenes. No paid overtime to manage both roles. That’s doing more. Not less.

Oh, and none of the school staff handed in a section 44 letter at my school.

We've also provided a full timetable of 5 subjects a day for our children. Not live - our classes have full bubbles daily - and live lessons aren't the best solution for our school. Our teachers and TAs are working ft hours, working for home for their PPA time. I'm the only member of staff working from home this time round - my role means it's better for me to do so. Lockdown 1, 4 of us worked from home it lost were in and in ft.

sorry but to blindly defend them just because they are in that profession is a little unwise. As I’ve said there has been no ‘teaching’ at home, I hardly think that sending a few worksheets home can be classed as a second job! If so I need some recognition for sending back the same worksheets after doing the actual teaching from the PowerPoint - didn’t realise I had a second job!

Sorry what is simplifying? They were told to hand in a notice and they did
You might want to read a bit more about actually what happened and how on that day (4th Jan) all schools were instructed to close by the government in agreement with the risk the rising cases in the new variant was posing to the NHS throughout the whole country.

www.thefocus.news/education/teachers-section-44-letter/

I support anyone’s right to expect risk assessments on the safety of their workplace to be fair and relevant.

You’ll note I didn’t say that other frontline workers hadn’t ‘shouted’ about it what I said was they hadn’t cried off- they may have balloted but I didn’t see them nurses/ police/ security officers/ prison staff/ bus drivers etc downing tools and refusing to return to work unless they had half the patients/ people at their workplaces or saying they would only work from home?

No because if you read about each occurrence for balloting to strike, they got what they asked for so didn’t need to see it through.

@Abraxan hope you recover well. Take good care of yourself in the coming months.

@Ibizababyy

sorry but to blindly defend them just because they are in that profession is a little unwise. As I’ve said there has been no ‘teaching’ at home, I hardly think that sending a few worksheets home can be classed as a second job! If so I need some recognition for sending back the same worksheets after doing the actual teaching from the PowerPoint - didn’t realise I had a second job!

I’m a parent doing home learning with my own @Ibizababyy and doing just that, parenting, I.e. facilitating the work sent home. Not ‘doing the teacher’s job for them’ Sheesh. It’s obvious you are angry and I completely understand why but I personally feel you are directing that anger at the wrong people. Direct that anger at the government and their dire handing of education and mental health during this pandemic.

What have I not done about it? School don’t want to know, there’s only so many times as a parent you can have a polite gentle conversation and make suggestions about the provision coming up against such resistance to change before you stop as you don’t want to be seen as one of ‘those’ parents. One example is that school won’t offer anything live due to safeguarding concerns- yet schools up and down the country have provided full programmes including some live lessons so that really is a poor excuse. I could go on but I’m weary from it and contrary to what many teachers on this thread may think I’m not here to get at all teachers- some have bent over backwards- the provision my friends kids have had has bee fantastic and their engagement as a result has been also. If you remember my original point was that some teachers need some perspective.

If you remember my original point was that some teachers need some perspective.

Except you didn’t say some teachers originally.