Risk of long covid in children

[SansaSnark]

twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1363473889951637504

Twitter thread here from Christina Pagel which is very measured and balanced. She is not usually alarmist about covid related stuff.

The narrative is that catching covid is ok for children, but the truth is, we don't really know what the long term impacts will be.

Personally, I think we need to be more cautious with the level of risk children are being exposed to in schools, and reopen with serious mitigation measures. School sites are very likely to be too small to open to all children at once safely, so some sort of rota system is needed.

Long term, I think we need to be putting more efforts into developing a vaccine for our children.

Some of the wankers on this thread haven't had to live with a long term illness. For 19 years I've had ME. It has ruined much of my life. And dick heads that said it didn't exist have made it 100% harder. Yes lockdown is shit. Yes we all want it to end. But that doesn't negate the fact that we need to be concerned about long covid.

Same here @gallbladderpain
I was 'talking' to a mum of a 15 year old with Downs Syndrome today on a friends post on Facebook, who, despite being extremely vulnerable, has been told he can't be vaccinated even a few months early.

@HazeyJaneII

I'm not sure I could do it to them to be honest, they are year 9 and 10...it's a big thing to miss this time, and school have not done it for other children with cev relatives.

Ah yes, it is such a difficult decision at that age. Ours are younger, my eldest is Y4 so it is easier for them. Of course it still hasn't been an easy decision for us and we are keen to get them back to school as well, currently looking towards after Easter hoping by that stage community transmission in our area will have decreased significantly to allow us some confidence although would much have preferred a rota system to reduce contacts but it seems unlikely. We appreciate it will never be 'risk free' but theres quite a lot inbetween 'high risk' and 'risk free'

I think it's better for parents to be aware of these things. It's not scaremongering.

My dc had post viral thing way back. I had no idea it was connected to the viral infection that he had few weeks before and didn't take it seriously when dc complained of something until he actually collapsed and couldn't walk suddenly.

I know it's different, but it's better for parents to be aware of the possibility of post infection complications and keep an eye.

@HazeyJaneII that is awful [shocked] What is the difference between a coming 16 year old and a 16 year old ?
I would have at least thought that someone about to become 16 would have been able to have been vaccinated !
I don't think there is any hope for us if that is the case

I'd be interested to see any of the threads here where under 16s have been put forward for vaccines. The guidelines state 16 at youngest or in residential care...and even children I know with life limiting conditions aren't being vaccinated. Ds's Dr agrees he should be shielding and is clinically extremely vulnerable - but not advising vaccination

Sorry - quoted above without posting my comment - I know of 1 CEV 15 year old who has had the vaccine and that’s it - certainly most consultants seem very reluctant to recommend it to young children (e.g. under 11). I know it’s only anecdata.

@HazeyJaneII

I'm not sure I could do it to them to be honest, they are year 9 and 10...it's a big thing to miss this time, and school have not done it for other children with cev relatives.

I feel the same @HazeyJaneII - my non-vulnerable dc are in years 7, 9 & 11. Y7 dd would be happy to stay at home - but we risk potentially damaging Y11 ds’s GCSE outcomes if he stays at home while the rest of his year group are in school. And Y9 ds would honestly never forgive me if I kept him at home when his classmates go back. I was desperately hoping they would be going back in a phased way with rotas to reduce class sizes, masks in classrooms and better ventilation. I feel absolutely gutted that we can’t protect our youngest (CEV) dc in the way we should.

@pinkpip100
It makes me really sad reading posts like yours where people aren't being afforded the protection and having to feel like they can't keep their DC safe because it seems to be an all or nothing and everyone just wants it all because 'the vulnerable are vaccinated' or the worst one 'the vulnerable can just stay at home'
Some mitagation in schools would at the very least reduce the risks for so many families.

BonnesVacances thanks
Yes, thankfully we are getting some help with that (hopefully the right kind!) The football example was how we noticed there was an ongoing problem, and I promise I’m not forcing him out to play every week now!

So, he’s no longer doing football, and we’re working through having adequate rest periods while still trying to keep up his fitness. Which is fun with an 11 year old who never wants to sit down! I think it’s a bit similar to the cfs/me spoons idea, but his consultant does admit he’s not really a cfs/me expert. But the onus is definitely on not overdoing things, resting when he needs but keeping on with walking and light jogging so he doesn’t get deconditioned.

At the moment, that’s working quite well for the exhaustion, but it’s not stopping the inflammatory flare ups. We’ve got some (more!) blood tests coming up to see why that might be happening.

I’m a bit worried that the exhaustion will come back when he’s back at school full time, but all we can do is wait and see for now.

gallbladderpain

Completely agree, and my heart goes out to all of you with vulnerable kids. The “the vulnerable can just stay home” crowd are definitely lacking a shit ton of empathy and common sense.

Pinkpip I was really hoping for mitigations (masks/rotas) too. Some posters are convinced that means teachers are “too scared” to go back to work, but I’m not as worried for myself as I am for my students. Some have underlying conditions, some are incredibly stressed by being in school, and of course others are desperate to be back. Just feels like mitigations would solve the majority of those problems and provide safety for vulnerable students as well as much needed school contact time for others.

Its good to read other posters with similar worries (even though i wish none of us were going through it).
I agree that staggering starts, waiting for community cases to fall more and bringing in better safety measures would help...ds is supposed to be starting secondary this year,transition is going to hard enough for him (complex needs, including anxiety), and I just hoped so much we might be able to have a bit of 'normal transition'.

@TheKeatingFive

Equally I am not surprised to see it dismissed out of hand as there are plenty of people keen to see a full and unmitigated reopening!

In my world, it should take an awful lot to justify closing schools. The fear of totally overwhelming the nhs, I understand as a reason. The risk of long Covid in children, which the data does not seem overwhelming on, not so much.

I would just like to see greater honesty on the topic really, I agree long covid alone isn't reason to close schools - my concern is lack of risk mitigation.

I find it frustrating that anytime I mention mitigations some immediately jump to 'schools shouldn't be closed' - it is another way of closing down all discussion around covid impacts on children.

The 'closed vs open' false dichotomy has really damaged education over this last year. We could have opened schools more sustainably and seen much less disruption. But for some adults the illusion of normality is very important, even though it makes children's lives in school more difficult.

Anyway, our dimwitted PM has as predicted gone for his 'big bang' reopening so we will have a lot more long covid research subjects by early summer.

Twitter thread here from Christina Pagel which is very measured and balanced. She is not usually alarmist about covid related stuff.

She's one of the Indy Sage people, so you'll forgive me if I take what she says with a pinch of salt.

This is not a nice virus, but having a rough recovery from a virus (flu, noro, chickenpox, glandular fever or what-have-you) is a well documented thing and is not unique to COVID. The great majority of kids who are having a tough time recovering from any virus are likely to be fine after a while---they need more time to get over this.

As a society, we need to be patient with the idea of convalescence--schools and employers these days are apt to be too impatient, expecting children and employees to just "get over" things in two seconds flat and then spring back into school or the workplace.

twitter.com/apsmunro/status/1362446759545495554 This is a reasonable and balanced thread. Scroll down a little to see the stuff about long COVID in kids.

I agree that we should roll out the vaccine for kids as soon as possible. The trials are already underway, so hopefully the rollout can start later on this year.

This is not a nice virus, but having a rough recovery from a virus (flu, noro, chickenpox, glandular fever or what-have-you) is a well documented thing and is not unique to COVID.

The medical profession do not agree with this view.

The medical profession considers long covid as different, more complex.

Minimising long covid is a branch of covid denial. We all have a responsibility to listen to medics I think.

Bonnesvaccance I hope this doesn't sound like I'm being interfering but it sounds like ypu need to tweak the management of your DD's long COVID. I know I'm asking the impossible for an 11 year old, but however much she feels like she can do in a day, try to get her to only do 50% of that. With school, she may need to only go in for couple of hours max per day. It sounds from your post like she's in boom and bust, and it's not good for longer term recovery. Its a bit woo and I'm generally skeptical about most alternative therapies but consider cranial osteopathy too (it's really helped!) and look into a low histamine diet if she isn't on one already. Experience: DP and 7 year old cousin with SEVERE long COVID, both for 11 months too. Other things that have helped is earplugs and blue light screening glasses (they diminish environment stimulation). But ultimately you/she need to manage her symptoms so that she never gets as exhausted and in pain as you describe. Dial everything right back. Eat clean, low histamine. I won't advise on supplements, because I'm no medic, but vit D and B12 might be worth considering if you haven't already. You have my utmost sympathy. Long covid is hell on a stick. Truly devastating. I really hope your DD gets better soon. And for others reading, there is crossover wirh post viral fatigue but it's not the same.

I do think we are a little blasé about potential impact on kids, although what we can do about it is another matter. I'm generally one for not worrying health wise but a friend is an A&E nurse and she said that her colleagues are staggered at the number of people that arrive at hospital either A&E or for other referrals needing scans (not Covid related) for the tell tale shadows and cots to be visible on their lungs. Many haven't a clue they have had Covid. The impact on kids is less known as simply they tend to get referred for hospital investigations less so don't get X-rays or scans.

We will only really know in future years the true legacy of this

Edit... Not bonnesvaccance! YVLA. I'm awake yet! Sympathies to others going through this hell too.

@Sunflowergirl1

I do think we are a little blasé about potential impact on kids, although what we can do about it is another matter. I'm generally one for not worrying health wise but a friend is an A&E nurse and she said that her colleagues are staggered at the number of people that arrive at hospital either A&E or for other referrals needing scans (not Covid related) for the tell tale shadows and cots to be visible on their lungs. Many haven't a clue they have had Covid. The impact on kids is less known as simply they tend to get referred for hospital investigations less so don't get X-rays or scans.

We will only really know in future years the true legacy of this

I have a friend who is a paediatric consultant. She says they have found worrying lesions in kids organs that they think are Covid related. They have various symptoms.

@user1477391263

Twitter thread here from Christina Pagel which is very measured and balanced. She is not usually alarmist about covid related stuff.

She's one of the Indy Sage people, so you'll forgive me if I take what she says with a pinch of salt.

This is not a nice virus, but having a rough recovery from a virus (flu, noro, chickenpox, glandular fever or what-have-you) is a well documented thing and is not unique to COVID. The great majority of kids who are having a tough time recovering from any virus are likely to be fine after a while---they need more time to get over this.

As a society, we need to be patient with the idea of convalescence--schools and employers these days are apt to be too impatient, expecting children and employees to just "get over" things in two seconds flat and then spring back into school or the workplace.

twitter.com/apsmunro/status/1362446759545495554 This is a reasonable and balanced thread. Scroll down a little to see the stuff about long COVID in kids.

Again, long COVID is not synonymous with PVF

The medical community have termed it "long COVID" because whilst some patients do have COVID-related PVF, many others have symptoms which are not classically seen in PVF. This is well documented.

It includes very real, physiological effects, on the lungs, heart and brain beyond simple fatigue and tiredness following infection.