Risk of long covid in children

[SansaSnark]

twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1363473889951637504

Twitter thread here from Christina Pagel which is very measured and balanced. She is not usually alarmist about covid related stuff.

The narrative is that catching covid is ok for children, but the truth is, we don't really know what the long term impacts will be.

Personally, I think we need to be more cautious with the level of risk children are being exposed to in schools, and reopen with serious mitigation measures. School sites are very likely to be too small to open to all children at once safely, so some sort of rota system is needed.

Long term, I think we need to be putting more efforts into developing a vaccine for our children.

I have to agree, our children face many risks every day which only increase with age. There has to be a balance between living life and avoiding risk. I guess everyone strikes that balance differently.

I think it is because there are other ways to be "harmed", and many parents feel that school closures are more harmful to their kids. People will have thought about the risks of covid to their kids (and worried about it at some point) and then weighed up the evidence and still feel like lockdowns, school closures and mental health problems are a bigger concern. So they are worried, just not in the same way as you.

If they are doing this, then they are interested, so I am not talking about these type of parents. Of course people assess the multiple risks differently.

But time and again we see people simply shutting it down or dismissing the whole concept of long covid. That is what i was referring to - I think to deny the very existence of something that could harm your child is a whole different ball game than saying 'on balance I think x is more impotrant than y'.

This thread has plenty of long covid denial/minimisation, which is just a branch of covid denial in general.

@TaxTheRatFarms

Thanks CovidCrow Unfortunately what he has is not just “post viral fatigue” as there are other complications causing him pain and weird flare ups, but I know what you mean. I’m also not advocating for schools to be closed for longer or anyone’s life to be put more on hold. More focus on how this disease affects children and how they could be helped would be great. I’m don’t think that has to be an either/or.

(Also I would apologise for ranting, but I think any mum in my position would be the same, so thank you all for your patience )

Spot on post.

Firstly I'm sorry your ds is going through this and the poster (sorry can't remember your name) DD.

But your spot on. This isn't an arbitrary open schools for all or remain remote teaching.

This isn't a case of children are low risk so open to all or there's some serious risk to some so remain remote.

It's far more complex. It needs to be looked at as the spectrum of possibilities rather than this black and white the government uses and some posters also use.

The risks are real and we need data about what the risks are percentage wise and what that means if all children in schools got it because it's allowed to rip through.

Those studies are important.

My ds has a neurological condition and is 16 and had yet to be called under group 6. So him going back worries me and I do think mitigation's are necessary. Luckily his college can and did do blended learning so I'm not worried too much but yet I'm also worried because I know he may be more ill if he gets it.

I hate that some people think that translates to me wanting schools shut. People can support education opening up and also have concerns.

It’s known that viral infections can cause post viral fatigue

It’s also now know that covid 19 can cause this and a variety of other symptoms such as lung and heart damage.

I don’t understand why people don’t want to find out what the risk is to their children. It’s a novel virus. We can’t just assume it will be the same as for flu, especially when there are suggestions the risk of long lasting symptoms might be higher than for flu. I think because there is also so much economic damage and the damage fromSchools being closed people don’t seem to be willing to consider there may also be risks to their children. Hopefully the incidence rate will end up being low but we don’t have the data yet.
It might be best for children to go back to school but I think there’s nothing wrong with admitting the risks to their health might be greater than pre 2020

Actually staggered by the "nope", "just stop" crowd

You don't not research into something because the answer might inconvenience you and your family. This is a novel virus, some children have had severe, long-term side effects from infection. This is an emerging field of study and clearly we do not have enough data collected yet to understand the extent and prevalence. Therefore it is very hard to understand how we should balance this risk with opening schools and easing of other restrictions. We need to be cautious.

I'm an epidemiologist and appreciate I and my colleagues do not know enough about this area to state anything definitively, so god knows where the posters who are stating it's not a problem are getting their evidence.

My son had covid before the first lockdown. He was gor some reason hit worse than the rest of us. Needed an inhaler a couple of times a day for two months.

Yes some people including kids get side effects for a bit longer. I expect that from these types of illnesses. It isn't a good reason to keep kids at home though. They will suffer more long term if there immune system isn't exposed to the normal childhood illnesses soon. Let alone the educational and social issues this is all causing. I want my children to be able to live their lives not hide in the shadows.

@Ylvamoon

Long Covid in not a thing! But post virtual fatigue is... and that could happen with ANY virtual infection. To me, the risk looks to be very low. Kids have lots of viral infections like colds and tummy bugs... nobody is worried about them.

I'm sick of hearing long covid tbh

People can support education opening up and also have concerns.

Agree with this.

@Beaniecats

I'm sick of hearing about long covid tbh

Why exactly?

Actually the pneumococcal vaccine is one of the routine childhood vaccines given to babies.

But that's for protection in infancy I thought, does it protect you for your whole life?

TaxTheRatFarms

Beaniecats my son is more sick of dealing with it than you are of hearing about it. Hope that helps

Also maybe if you don’t like hearing about it don’t open threads about it and make shitty comments.

Here’s an easy mantra to remember:

“Nobody cares about my shitty opinion.”

Open thread, say to self, “Nobody cares about my shitty opinion,” and close the thread. Easy. Hope it works out for you!

[quote oldegg123]@Beaniecats

I'm sick of hearing about long covid tbh

Why exactly?[/quote]
Its known as post viral fatigue syndrome been around for years and is well known. I guess long covid sounds more dramatic

I'm sick of hearing about long covid tbh That's unfortunate for you as given the research funding that will be going into it globally, you may hear a whole lot more about it in future

My poor sister had it many years ago after pneumonia I think it was. Extremely debilitating and unpleasant. Unfortunately little help available medically

@PracticingPerson

I'm sick of hearing about long covid tbh That's unfortunate for you as given the research funding that will be going into it globally, you may hear a whole lot more about it in future

That's a mistake

Its known as post viral fatigue syndrome been around for years and is well known. I guess long covid sounds more dramatic

This sort of comment is similar to AIDS denialism.

The medical community have termed it long covid to distinguish it from typical post-viral fatigue.

@TaxTheRatFarms

Beaniecats my son is more sick of dealing with it than you are of hearing about it. Hope that helps

Also maybe if you don’t like hearing about it don’t open threads about it and make shitty comments.

Here’s an easy mantra to remember:

“Nobody cares about my shitty opinion.”

Open thread, say to self, “Nobody cares about my shitty opinion,” and close the thread. Easy. Hope it works out for you!

This

I'm really sorry about your son @TaxTheRatFarms

Pretending long covid doesn't exist is ridiculous. The impact (which clinicians and epidemiologists have repeatedly stated we do not know enough about yet), must be factored into the balance of risks associated with easing restrictions.

Thanks itsgettingwierd and so sorry to hear about your ds, that must be so stressful for all of you. It’s really good that his college can do blended learning but completely understand your concerns. I hope it goes really well for him and as worry free for you as possible (if possible at all, but hopefully you know what I mean!) for the pair of us!

I disagree that Christina Pagel is not usually alarmist. I’ve followed her throughout this Covid crisis and she has become increasingly so.

She speaks a lot on Newsnight and I follow her on Twitter.

Its known as post viral fatigue syndrome been around for years and is well known. I guess long covid sounds more dramatic

What is your background @Beaniecats?

What we know about long COVID is that it's more complex than simple post-viral fatigue syndrome that can potentially impact many organs including the lungs, heart and CNS.

I only know about the neurological research in detail, as it's my area of expertise, but these kind of long-term symptoms are not commonly seen in post-viral syndrome. The UKRI has awarded 2.3mil to King's College London and the University of Liverpool to investigate this further - you really think you know better than 100s of leading scientists in the field?

www.ukri.org/news/new-national-study-into-the-neurological-impact-of-covid-19/

I genuinely don’t know who to believe. Ds’s consultant from a large teaching hospital who says ds has long covid not regular post viral fatigue, or Beaniecats off of the internet.

Guys this is so tough!!

@HazeyJaneII

I just wish they would crack on with the vaccine for children, at the moment they're saying the end of the year at the earliest.

The test for the vaccine on adults will not be complete until 2023. They are still calling for healthy volunteers now. In 2023 they will have more true data based on real world mass vaccination programme.

Any trials on children will take just as long but will probably not get the emergency approval this experimental vaccine rollout has gotten. But as it's a pandemic special approval was made. By the time a children's vaccine programme is possible, we probably won't still have a 'pandemic' status, if the current vaccines do the job everyone is expecting.

Thank you oldegg and chocolate

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n157/rr

On why the ONS data on long covid in kids shouldn't be taken at face value and needs further investigation.