ICU full of young people

[Sleeplessinsaltend]

I keep hearing from people on here that ICU is full of young people, if we unlock then the wards will be full of 30/40 year olds. Looking at this it seems not to be the case.

Don't poke the Covid hysterics, OP, it never ends well.

We're all going to die and should never leave our homes again, E V E R. Do you hear??!

Well, anecdotaly I have noticed more younger people in itu, than the last wave but by younger I mean 45-65 year olds. Perhaps the more elderly have passed away before going to itu.

@Sleeplessinsaltend

But I’m not talking about people in their 50’s or 60’s, who will soon have been vaccinated, I’m specifically addressing a mumsnet myth that the hospitals, and ICU, are full of people in their 20/30/40’s. We see it in every thread here. I’m just sharing the ONS statistics saying that while the virus is most prevalent in those groups, but these are the groups least likely to need hospital treatment. Sorry if the title alarmed anyone - in retrospect I would have worded it differently. I know how scary the doom thread titles can be.

Maybe stop reading MN OP?

I've never read that ICU beds are full of young people.

Forums are not always the best place for info :)

@scaevola

Info on ICUs during COVID

www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/fa237058-f072-eb11-912e-00505601089b

You can't read across from general hospital admission data to ICU admission.

So far, we've just managed that everyone who needs an ICU bed got one. Scores of patients - for medical reasons - are not admitted to ICUs (even when a bed available) because it is held not to be in their best interests to have that level of intrusive treatment with vanishingly low chance of improvement. And that is a major reason why figures just cannot and must not be read across in that way.

Wider hospital admissions is of course important - getting numbers with severe disease (whether ICU or not) down is important, as when the danger of NHS being overwhelmed has ebbed (ie we come off level 5) then the chances of being able to open up safely increase considerably. That is why the vaccination priorities are as they are.

And of course the difference between rate per 100k and absolute numbers.

That report shows that the average age of patients in critical care was marginally older after September than before. That would indicate the second wave was hitting older people as hard as the first and hence the vaccination strategy

Isn't ICU usually weighted towards the young and healthy as they can take the extreme interventions that they do there to keep people alive? DH was ventilated as a fit 20 year old for about a week. I could restrain him when he was brought around from the indued coma as he'd lost so much muscle. There's no way my dad in his late 70s could have survived that. As it was I was called in to say goodbye. Amazingly he survived but it was touch and go.

Heard on the news this morning that rates are already going down in care homes due to vaccinations. Therefore, fewer elderly population are becoming ill. Therefore, by default, a larger percentage of hospitalised patients will be younger.

Ie.
jan - 1000 old, 50 young
Feb- 100 old, 50 young

Same number of young, but gone up to 50% of hospitalised population, so looks a lot worse

(Numbers for illustrative purposes, not actual data)

Sweetcharities I get my info from the ONS, I’m just sharing it to counter some of the information I have seen shared here.

OP I think you make a valid point. However, this should not be a reason to abandon all of the restrictions at once. I want a start to reducing the number of people on waiting lists for other treatment, which can only happen if the number there from Covid 19 reduces yet further.

@Northernsoulgirl45, I don't think there's anything special. Just common sense, like proper SD and 100% mask wearing and parents not allowed sending in ill children, if they show any possible symptoms.

Peak2021 I’m all for a cautious return to life, let’s see how schools effect hospital rates. But realistically outdoor transmission is low, the most vulnerable are vaccinated. We need to get back to some kind of normality at some point. The idea that hospitals will be swamped with unvaccinated 20/30/40 year olds is something said on nearly every thread about ending lock down. The statistics show that it’s unlikely to be the case that once we have vaccinated the older populations that hospitals won’t be able to cope. Last summer they could and that is without the vaccine. I’m also hopeful for the nhs to start dealing with non covid cases once there is capacity.

Thank you @Xerochrysum. Wish SD was possible in our schools.

@Sleeplessinsaltend you won’t get many people on here agreeing with you, it’s like long Covid, most people on here think anyone who catches Covid will have long Covid, where I think the reality Is very different, most people I know who have had it recovered fine. Yes long Covid exists, yes young healthy people end up in hospital but it’s a small %. You always get people who will be way over the top.

Its so frustrating that there are posts on here suggesting a larger number of children in ITU, too.

I'm so interested to see what the Gov announcement will be on Monday. Numbers are dropping. So there has to be some positive changes to lockdown, I hope.

People who can't do maths are the real experts, we should listen to them more I think

This made me laugh out loud....

Thank goodness our actual doctors, pharmacists etc are actually required to be numerate...

your title should be, covid affecting more working age adults, regardless of itu stats

In virtualwaitingroom no it shouldn’t

5400 icu beds in England of which 3400 approx are covid patients

They say 1/2 under 70 with 1/4 under 50

So approx 850 under 50

I’m guessing vast majority have underlying issues of come sort including obesity which seems to be not mentioned when we see pics on the paper or healthy cases

So prob less than couple of hundred healthy under 50 in icu

So not exactly millions is it

Text convo From a doctor I work with who works in ICU:

Me: how’s it going this week?

Doc: it’s rough

Doc: all the younger ones in ICU are >140kgs. It hits them worse tbh

Me: why though?

Doc: if you’re already obese you already have cardiovascular shit going on, you’re likely hypertensive, it’s a shit storm

Me: what about the older ones though?

Doc: yeah they’re still here, the younger ones are the ones who are really poorly this wave though

Nhs England figures for Feb

@Baileysforchristmas

One in ten Covid infections leads to long Covid from what I've read about it. (I am a long Covid sufferer so not surprisingly it's of interest to me.) That means that 90% don't! So it isn't all that common, but it the problem is that it tends to impact on a younger age group and not just those with underlying health issues or who are obese. It's certainly more of a risk to a healthy young person than ICU or death.

I'm not going to argue that we should lock down for longer than necessary because of the risk of long Covid, though, because I also have two school-aged DDs (11 and 8) and I've seen the way they've been impacted by not being able to play with their school friends.

The vaccine rollout will mean that the risk of long Covid will recede anyway, along with the risk of hospitalisation or death.

@MaskellEtt 140kg 😮 wow i’m 60kg, so people over weight are at a very high risk of ending up in hospital whatever their age.

@Baileysforchristmas, I didn’t really ask anything else re age/weight. He just wanted a nice non covid convo but yes I think 140 must be morbidly obese?

@MaskellEtt

Text convo From a doctor I work with who works in ICU:

Me: how’s it going this week?

Doc: it’s rough

Doc: all the younger ones in ICU are >140kgs. It hits them worse tbh

Me: why though?

Doc: if you’re already obese you already have cardiovascular shit going on, you’re likely hypertensive, it’s a shit storm

Me: what about the older ones though?

Doc: yeah they’re still here, the younger ones are the ones who are really poorly this wave though

A good illustration of what a huge risk factor obesity is. Have people with a BMI over 40 now been asked to shield?

@Mittens030869 thanks for that, that is the first time i’ve seen a % on here for long Covid, it puts it in prospective.

I got the one in ten stat off the BBC News, actually. I don't know what the stats were for hospital, ICU and death are, but with the four most vulnerable groups having been vaccinated, that's obviously going to drop rapidly anyway.