ICU full of young people

[Sleeplessinsaltend]

I keep hearing from people on here that ICU is full of young people, if we unlock then the wards will be full of 30/40 year olds. Looking at this it seems not to be the case.

I think the point about having a BMI over 40 is that it should be treated as an underlying condition. There will be a lot of people with a BMI of 40+ who have other related underlying conditions, such as diabetes, hypertension or heart disease, which may not have been diagnosed prior to their hospital admission.
Having a BMI of over 40 can also make it harder work for your body to deal with an acute respiratory illness, especially if the extra fat is distributed across the chest and abdomen. Like weight lifting whilst running a marathon is how one ICU Physio described it to me.

I have two consultant friends at a hospital in Bristol who said that the 'younger' severe cases they are seeing are overwhelming linked to obesity and higher BMI's. I think that the last few days has seen an increase in shielding so we might see some changes in figures amongst lower ages in the coming weeks?

@RandomGrammarPun

Fuxache.

No agenda at all.

The people I'm talking about where in ITU first - third/fourth weeks of January (I don't know if they're all out/well/recovered as not seen colleagues for two weeks). They all caught Covid just before Christmas.

Teaching assistant in SEN school.
Radiographer
Nurse x 2
GP
WFH wife of secondary teacher (caught it from him).

Six of the eight's occupations.

‘No idea about needing ITU. None of the six people I'm taking about aged between 29-37 in ITU at the moment have any underlying health conditions. Nor my two friends in their 50s who were ventilated a few weeks before that. (All 8 of these anecdote cases were HCPs or teacher, so viral load very probably paid a part.)’

So which is it then? They’re all in ITU now as you originally said? Or they were in ITU weeks ago and might still be there? But you don’t really know?
And which category does the WFH wife fall into? Given you said they were all teachers or HCPs?

Hi I would change the title , on the surface this reinforces more scare mongering. The fact is that they are statistically not full of young people. If you are not obese or have an underlying condition it’s still highly unlikely to affect lost . We do need a sense of perspective here

As PP have pointed out “young” mostly means under 70.

I would urge caution around any ITU data and always recommend people check absolute numbers.

The criteria for admission and discharge to specialist units has to be flexible if they are to treat the sickest patients. In practice, this means at times of greater demand some people won’t be admitted and some others will have shorter stays if they are sick-but-stable, being stepped down to a ward area to allow other patients to be admitted.

It’s a broad generalisation, but high level ITU data may appear to lag the actual situation as it improves, because as there is less pressure on beds, patients will be able to stay on the unit longer before being moved to a less specialist area.

That said, no one who is even assessed for an ITU bed is in a good situation.

Our local children’s hospital is still running with 2 extra ITU wards for covid patients that are obviously children. They didn’t need these extra ITUs during the first wave. They do generally recover well though.

I think to say if we were ‘unlocked’ it would be worse than before isn’t true, as you saw far fewer people will die because the most vulnerable have been vaccinated.

However if we were to got to an extreme of removing all restrictions and just allowing covid to run through the younger population lots of people will get very ill. It may be a small percentage but a large number overall.

I don’t envy the government at all for having to decide how to move forwards.

My understanding from being in NHS meetings is that the number of younger people in ICU has increased and there are more in their 60’s. There are more younger people admitted to hospital for breathing support but not ICU. There is a big difference. These numbers are still proportionally tiny. They come into hospital for medication and oxygen and then they go home after a short stay and get better. This is TOTALLY different to ICU and ventilation. Not nice, but not the same. The units are not overrun with 20/30 and 40 year olds, there are a small number increase which is a tiny proprtion of both the population and those getting ill

@PinkPlantCase
PinkPlantCase

Our local children’s hospital is still running with 2 extra ITU wards for covid patients that are obviously children. They didn’t need these extra ITUs during the first wave. They do generally recover well though.

Are you an HCP? Evidence from NHS England is that children’s ICU are at an all time low. Some have been closed completely and others are taking young adults up to 25 because they have ample bed capacity There is no evidence of Covid running rampant on children ICU’s. In addition there is next to no RSV, no flu and limited other illness coming into the children’s wards.

@ChasingRainbows19 I would be one of those greedy fat people with a pre existing condition (asthma) who deaths either don't count as they were ill anyway with the added bonus being self inflicted.
Unfortunately I an not priority six as that's only severe asthma and my BMI isn't quite high enough. Only 39 which is hardly only of course.

My friend who is a senior paediatric nurse said they were having to stop their wards being stolen for other use as they are so empty.

‘Our local children’s hospital is still running with 2 extra ITU wards for covid patients that are obviously children. They didn’t need these extra ITUs during the first wave. They do generally recover well though. ‘

What’s your source for this?

@dipdips I believe that in a significant number of areas this is correct. Paediatrics has never been so quiet.

but not in school because of measures taken.
What measures are taken in your home country?
@Xerochrysum

But I’m not talking about people in their 50’s or 60’s, who will soon have been vaccinated, I’m specifically addressing a mumsnet myth that the hospitals, and ICU, are full of people in their 20/30/40’s. We see it in every thread here. I’m just sharing the ONS statistics saying that while the virus is most prevalent in those groups, but these are the groups least likely to need hospital treatment. Sorry if the title alarmed anyone - in retrospect I would have worded it differently. I know how scary the doom thread titles can be.

I don’t think that image says anything about the ages of people in ICU beds though, does it?

No, it doesn't. They put younger people in ICU because they are more likely to survive the process. Much older patients were being triaged out. That was what I was told in person by a nurse who was on a non ICU covid ward (lots of people dying), and an ICU doctor. Younger means 50s and 60s rather than 20s.

@PinkPlantCase

Our local children’s hospital is still running with 2 extra ITU wards for covid patients that are obviously children. They didn’t need these extra ITUs during the first wave. They do generally recover well though.

I think to say if we were ‘unlocked’ it would be worse than before isn’t true, as you saw far fewer people will die because the most vulnerable have been vaccinated.

However if we were to got to an extreme of removing all restrictions and just allowing covid to run through the younger population lots of people will get very ill. It may be a small percentage but a large number overall.

I don’t envy the government at all for having to decide how to move forwards.

Our local children’s hospital opened an ITU ward for adults.

Agree with the rest of your post. It’s a delicate balance.

If you work in healthcare, people who are 50 and 60 are seen as young, they are working age, lots of the people who are involved in looking after them will be of a similar age.

Tbh I think the reality is that there will be people in icu with covid for at least the rest of the year, and maybe indefinitely. They could be anyone. A few years ago there was a big campaign to try and bring down the number of sepsis deaths, which are about 40,000 a year. Otherwise healthy people can die at any time, and maybe in the future there is an elevated risk to us all - which would still be negligible compared to the risk of premature death before antibiotics. The question is how we want to handle that fact. No life for anybody because somebody might die?

I've been speaking to a student nurse who is working in ICU currently. Her ICU (cold not hot) is full of younger men but they are suicide attempts.

Which ICU are you talking about hot or cold?

@Atrixie it might be a random local thing. It’s a children’s hospital in a large city that covers a big area. I don’t work there but I have a sister who does and have no reason to believe she’s lying. People keep asking her if things are getting quieter now at work and the answer so far has been no, there still running with extra ITU wards.

Or course the vast majority of children hardly even get symptoms of covid, let alone get very ill.

Honestly I think some people just want to spread doom and gloom. There is another thread which asked if you liked being in lockdown (or something like this). I was staggered as to the number of people answering that they did like it, they admitted they didn’t like crowds or going out much but about 50% of them felt they could carry on like this.

That is shocking and how on earth do they think the economy will get back on its feet. Maybe they don’t work, on benefits or furloughed. If you have been furloughed over the last year you do realise don’t you that when we start to release that your company might wonder why on earth they need you?

Our local children’s hospital has lots of covid patients but none are children, but they’ve had to put a covid ward of adults in the children hospital

@Moonstone1234

Honestly I think some people just want to spread doom and gloom. There is another thread which asked if you liked being in lockdown (or something like this). I was staggered as to the number of people answering that they did like it, they admitted they didn’t like crowds or going out much but about 50% of them felt they could carry on like this.

That is shocking and how on earth do they think the economy will get back on its feet. Maybe they don’t work, on benefits or furloughed. If you have been furloughed over the last year you do realise don’t you that when we start to release that your company might wonder why on earth they need you?

What's that got to do with this? Do you have any stats to back this up?

‘Or course the vast majority of children hardly even get symptoms of covid, let alone get very ill.’

And yet here we have claims of two extra Paed ITU ‘wards’ being opened for kids with

OP, it's about proportions and how people's behaviour changes.