What’s the point of vaccinations when still nothing is deemed ‘safe’?

[katieloves]

Just really struggling with this. We’re doing an amazing job and have so far vaccinated the people most likely to succumb to coronavirus and are cracking on with the people less vulnerable. But still it seems all news is bad and no end in sight. Looks likely that we’ll be lucky if only the youngest get back to school from the 8th and not much chance of secondary schools back until after Easter. It just doesn’t make sense to me at all. Most DC are struggling now - their lives are on hold (I appreciate some dc are thriving with home learning but this is not true for any of the dc I know). Motivation for is on a fine line and who can blame them? But apparently school’s not ‘safe’ even though the most vulnerable are vaccinated. People saying we’ll be back to where we were before lockdown if schools go back in full and hospitals will be overwhelmed. Why??? We’ve vaccinated the most vulnerable. I’m honestly loosing the will.

@SomewhereUpMyArse

Do you think that zero Covid countries won’t open up borders after they gave vaccinated adults?

Sure, to other zero Covid countries. To us? I guess it depends on how our mutations go.

Like I say, look at restrictions already in place for tb and the like.

A few countries cut off from ROW for how long?

I appreciate that this isn't something that most British people have ever had to consider before because we've always previously been one of the countries putting restrictions in place against others. But if we don't get this sorted we could find the shoe is on the other foot.

Developed economies can see our numbers, it's all very open and equally they can see that we haven't got a lid on this at all. If they continue to see that once they're open again, it won't serve us well.

It’s ridiculous to think that countries will maintain closed borders - why are they bothering to vaccinate in Aus and NZ then if they are never letting Covid in?

Somewhere?

I think once groups 1-6 are done (2 doses) we can largely get on with it

The difficulty here is whether "it" will be open and accessible to be got on with

One of the consequences I'm expecting is that local authorities - always the first to find a reason why something can't be done - will foot-drag until hell freezes over.
Which, when we consider the number of things they can either control or interfere with, could be quite worrying

Like I say, look at restrictions already in place for tb and the like.

None of the TB restrictions are 'close borders to everybody except countries who've eliminated it', though. And we don't have a TB vaccine that's anywhere near as effective as the covid vaccines.

A few countries cut off from ROW for how long?

Lol it's more than a few and it includes the places with very robust economies anyway that were already in a good position ie were coming into this without QE and other measures taken in an attempt to mitigate a debt reliant economy, plus several have had six months plus of almost normal functioning while we've pissed around furloughing people because we can't get our act together.

Somewhere you’ve really got the wrong end of the stick if you think Aus etc are vaccinating population to only open up to zero Covid countries.

Bless your heart but there's a big old world out there. UAE, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Japan, China, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, South Korea etc etc are doing just fine. Australia and NZ are the minor players wanting a piece of all that.

So again how long is this divided world going to last?

Why are they vaccinating? Answer the question?

We just need to keep patient. We are doing brilliantly with the vaccines but not enough of the popation have had 1 let alone 2 for it to have a big impact yet.

Honestly it’s so fanciful it’s kind of funny.

Someone’s a bit loop de loop

None of the TB restrictions are 'close borders to everybody except countries who've eliminated it',

No, but they require a negative test. Which will be a bit difficult for anyone from a country where the attitude is "it's just a virus, we all get it, get over it".

Meh.

A mere 110 million have had confirmed Covid worldwide. So just 1 in 70 & so far we’ve had notable variants from Brazil, SA & the UK already.

So, plenty of scope for this thing to mutate. It hasn’t even got into its stride arguably. If you realistically think the world can lockdown until most of us are vaccinated whilst keeping a lid on spread through billions of free thinking people, some living in very densely populated areas I think you’re dreaming tbh. As already stated, it’ll take fecking ages.

Best hope we get lucky with the variants!

@SomewhereUpMyArse

None of the TB restrictions are 'close borders to everybody except countries who've eliminated it',

No, but they require a negative test. Which will be a bit difficult for anyone from a country where the attitude is "it's just a virus, we all get it, get over it".

The TB requirements for the UK is that if you're coming from one of the countries on a set list, and you're not a UK citizen or diplomat (or some other categories I think?), and you want to stay in the UK for more than six months, then you need to get a negative test. Not aware anyone gets screened for attitude.

Why do you feel that international restriction for covid will or should be much more limiting than the restrictions that exist for TB?

The world isn't locking down though. Lots of countries are functioning normally albeit with border restrictions. Anyone who continues to fail to deal with it will be left behind further as more time goes on.

Whether you think all those nations, many of whom have large economies ,all of whom have growing economies, are overreacting or dementors or whatever is immaterial because they're winning and we're not.

We aren’t self sufficient. We cannot totally close our borders.

Whether you think all those nations, many of whom have large economies ,all of whom have growing economies, are overreacting or dementors or whatever is immaterial because they're winning and we're not.

Nobody's said they're 'overreacting or dementors or whatever', have they? It feels like you're having a slightly different argument to the people you're arguing with.

Somewhere again if they plan to continue on zero Covid path why are they vaccinating population? UAE is ahead of many with this.

Not aware anyone gets screened for attitude.

They get screened due to prevalence in their country.

People on this thread have been advocating that we disregard covid prevalence and treat it as just another virus. Which would mean prevalence rising. I think that would put us in a bad position, same as other countries with high prevalence of different diseases are.

@SomewhereUpMyArse

The world isn't locking down though. Lots of countries are functioning normally albeit with border restrictions. Anyone who continues to fail to deal with it will be left behind further as more time goes on.

Whether you think all those nations, many of whom have large economies ,all of whom have growing economies, are overreacting or dementors or whatever is immaterial because they're winning and we're not.

Actually maybe it would make more sense to take the UK out of the picture altogether.

Do you think Peru should be shut out of global travel forever? They tried really hard to control covid, they had one of the longest and harshest shutdowns anywhere in spring. But they failed in the long term and they got really badly hit. It's hard to see that as their fault, really - they did what they could with the resources they could.

Would you like to see a world in which countries like Peru are cut off from most of the globe for the long term? Do you think that would be reasonable and proportionate?

What @TwirpingBird said. Enough with this stupidity, people need to live. Children need (yes need) to play. It is fundamental to their development.

Well vaccination is a great way to seal zero Covid in a place with low transmission anyway so they'd be crackers not to @MarshaBradyo.

@SomewhereUpMyArse

Not aware anyone gets screened for attitude.

They get screened due to prevalence in their country.

People on this thread have been advocating that we disregard covid prevalence and treat it as just another virus. Which would mean prevalence rising. I think that would put us in a bad position, same as other countries with high prevalence of different diseases are.

No, people on this thread have been arguing that we treat it as just another virus, after we have vaccinated everybody. Because at that point, its risk will be that of many other viruses that we don't lock down for. The vaccinating bit is pretty significant there.

@SomewhereUpMyArse

Well vaccination is a great way to seal zero Covid in a place with low transmission anyway so they'd be crackers not to *@MarshaBradyo*.

Somewhere can you link to any article that shows Aus is not going to open to international travel at some point? Probably 2022

I can only see statements on opening up

Would you like to see a world in which countries like Peru are cut off from most of the globe for the long term? Do you think that would be reasonable and proportionate?

Well, no. I don't like any of it. You have to be realistic though. Is Japan going to say, re Peru or re the UK, well it's not really their fault and I'm sure they're nice people so let's crack on and let them have a slice of what's going on here? Of course not.