What’s the point of vaccinations when still nothing is deemed ‘safe’?

[katieloves]

Just really struggling with this. We’re doing an amazing job and have so far vaccinated the people most likely to succumb to coronavirus and are cracking on with the people less vulnerable. But still it seems all news is bad and no end in sight. Looks likely that we’ll be lucky if only the youngest get back to school from the 8th and not much chance of secondary schools back until after Easter. It just doesn’t make sense to me at all. Most DC are struggling now - their lives are on hold (I appreciate some dc are thriving with home learning but this is not true for any of the dc I know). Motivation for is on a fine line and who can blame them? But apparently school’s not ‘safe’ even though the most vulnerable are vaccinated. People saying we’ll be back to where we were before lockdown if schools go back in full and hospitals will be overwhelmed. Why??? We’ve vaccinated the most vulnerable. I’m honestly loosing the will.

I feel like the way we think about covid hasn’t adapted at all to take vaccines into account. And it probably should do because vaccines really do change things.

There will come a point when measuring daily cases won’t mean what it does now because they won’t translate into serious illness and hospitalisation and deaths the same way. That’s a good thing! And there will come a point when the cost of lockdowns even just in terms of public health is much much higher than the benefit, and that’s also a good thing.

And we should be having conversations about whether vaccinated people get to hug their family and have their friends round indoors, not kick the can indefinitely with “well, safest just to act like you haven’t been vaccinated.”

Vaccines have massively changed things in a very positive way and it’s really a bit weird that so many of us are clinging to the thought that we should act otherwise, just in case of some as-yet-nonexistent new variant.

How many adults not been vaccinated yet: 30 million?40? Say 30. If death rates are 0.5%,that's still 150,000
Even if you want to argue that's a reasonable amount,it would need to be staggered as NHS would be overwhelmed with that if all close together. Or,you know,could finish Lent then open up after Easter when the vaccine will be much more common so we don't come back to a sodding lockdown?

Honestly, this thread has cheered me up. I think most people have common sense and compassion. The bots don't even seem convinced themselves - and I don't blame them - I'd be bored spouting the same propaganda by now.

First lockdown - I thought we came out too soon. Now we have vaccines etc it is different. Mass testing will be a huge problem and no help.

Time to go back to staying home if you are middle unwell and requesting early treatments if necessary. Voluntary testing and monitoring can be done by teams like Zoe. Whatever happens, there will still be seasonal viruses in Autumn again whether another coronavirus or flu etc. Better to get out and about now else our immune systems will be screwed!

@GoldenOmber

I feel like the way we think about covid hasn’t adapted at all to take vaccines into account. And it probably should do because vaccines really do change things.

There will come a point when measuring daily cases won’t mean what it does now because they won’t translate into serious illness and hospitalisation and deaths the same way. That’s a good thing! And there will come a point when the cost of lockdowns even just in terms of public health is much much higher than the benefit, and that’s also a good thing.

And we should be having conversations about whether vaccinated people get to hug their family and have their friends round indoors, not kick the can indefinitely with “well, safest just to act like you haven’t been vaccinated.”

Vaccines have massively changed things in a very positive way and it’s really a bit weird that so many of us are clinging to the thought that we should act otherwise, just in case of some as-yet-nonexistent new variant.

I agree. It will pass, sooner rather than later I hope.

As restrictions ease we will start to move on from prioritising concept of safe

Agree

@itallworkedouthorribly

What am I advocating for? Keeping the goalposts where they were, which is getting cases down (especially among the most vulnerable) by lockdown and vaccination so that the NHS isn’t overwhelmed and deaths reduce significantly. That’s a sensible and achievable goal. Then we start to reopen.

Oh grow up. There are no parents here to complain to. Everyone in government is trying to explain why the wishes are proving a little bit difficult to grant. They're doing their best but your kicking at the door has to be balanced against the exhausted staff in ICU, the new variants and the hard lessons learned coming out of previous lockdowns. There is a common goal here.

Don’t be so rude. This is not about my wish to get out of lockdown - personally I’m fortunate enough to be pretty comfortable.

This is about the harm done by lockdowns, particularly to the most vulnerable in society, which we have to weigh against the harm done by covid (or rather, the portion of that harm that we can actually prevent by lockdowns).

Cases aren't the issue. We dont panic about flu cases or noro cases. Once the top 4 groups are vaccinated case numbers no longer matter. If you're unwell, stay at home. If you feel fine,get on with your life.

This cannot be maintained for many more months. Our childrens children will be paying the bill.

Many people seem to keep saying "the vulnerable have been vaccinated". However, this is not really the case given that we know you need a time lag after the injection and also need two doses.

The UK has done well at first doses but we are only at 0.85% of the population who are "fully vaccinated" and even then it is believed to be another two weeks until they are protected.

For example, I had my first dose on 15th February. I was told I was likely to be called for my second over 12 weeks. Presuming that happens in time, I will be "done" on 24 May which is two weeks after that.

ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

People are very impatient, the reason we need to be patient is because the time of highest risk for vaccine-evading variants is as you move towards high numbers of vaccinated people (we are not yet half way through).

We're going to get there as long as the impatient fuck wits don't mess it all up

People are very impatient

People are suffering.

@PracticingPerson

People are very impatient, the reason we need to be patient is because the time of highest risk for vaccine-evading variants is as you move towards high numbers of vaccinated people (we are not yet half way through).

We're going to get there as long as the impatient fuck wits don't mess it all up

And when does the risk reduce?

The most vulnerable have had their first dose. It will be a good few weeks yet before they have all had their second and their immune systems have properly kicked in.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel, but if we ease restrictions too soon, it might turn out to be the lights of an oncoming train.

the reason we need to be patient is because the time of highest risk for vaccine-evading variants is as you move towards high numbers of vaccinated people (we are not yet half way through)

interesting - why is that?

Also, doesn’t this mean vaccine evading variants remain a big risk throughout the vaccinat programme and even after everyone is vaccinated? (Seeing as there will always be some unvaccinated, in this country or elsewhere).

If not - how long until this particularly risky phase has passed?

As someone who works in an office and therefore "non-essential", i am.still being forced to work at home. For nearly a year I have worked from a laptop on my knee, on a pillow,on the kitchen table..depending where I can find a space. I havent seen most of my team since March last year. Our office is huge and totally covid compliant in terms of sanitising stations, space, one way systems etc. And unlike shops, the general public dont come in. But STILL we are told we cant go into work. Staff are bored, lonely, isolated and irritable. Morale is at rock bottom despite some of us having been vaccinated. We feel like the forgotten workforce and mental health is shot to shit. We cannot be expected to continue like this for months on end when all the approved procedures are in place!

@katieloves

I can’t understand why people are saying we’ll have a 3rd peak if we start to open up when 99% of the people who die from coronavirus have been vaccinated (elderly and ECV) and now vaccinations are available to the clinically vulnerable too. I still can’t see my mum who was vaccinated 4 weeks ago. Why does it matter if cases rise if these groups are vaccinated?

Because younger fitter people are dying, and the virus is mutating quickly. And we have rolled out first shots but need the second to give the full benefit. We need to reach herd immunity and are not there yet. We will be when the majority of the population has either had it or has been vaccinated.

I think there’s a pretty good case to be made for waiting until the over-50s and vulnerable have had their first dose. That’s the group that makes up 99% of the deaths and most of the people who need ICU, and at our current rate they should be done by the end of March.

After that, we are in a very different situation to the one we were in last year. We will have turned it into the equivalent of seasonal flu, except with better vaccines.

some of us having been vaccinated

Have you been vaccinated twice with the second dose being two weeks ago? We need to be careful with our language here.

Agree that just vaccinating the vulnerable and letting everyone do as they please isn't going to be enough, not when you're talking at population levels, which is the relevant consideration for an easily transmissible virus.

It would be crackers to go through all this and then just say ah fuck it especially now we're at the beginning of the end.

Our numbers are still terrible, both infections and deaths. Massively so when compared to countries outside of Western Europe which as a whole has pretty much fucked it all up. We need to get this right.

Apart from anything else if we don't we won't be able to fully participate in the global economy. The countries who have nailed it are now streets ahead of us economically and this gap will only widen if we keep on fucking it up. Think about restrictions on movement re areas with high rates of tb for example. It could have massive consequences for us if we stay marked as the country who has dealt with this worst, especially given that our trading options are already screwed by Brexit.

If the vaccines arent the solution, there is no solution, and we all need to accept that, or accept that we sit in 4 walls forever

Good to see the outbreak of common sense on this thread, but as one who never saw vaccines as a magic bullet, the above is what I've been saying almost from the start

I'm only waiting for the narrative to change to "there'll be a tweak for the new variants by autumn so we shouldn't open up until then", and the follow-up of "it's winter now and really dangerous, but it might be better next year"

I don't think it'll fly, frankly ...

Only a tiny, tiny percentage of U.K. population is fully vaccinated. I keep reading that young, non vulnerable people are getting their first jabs. Let's hope there will still be enough the second dose to go round.

when 99% of the people who die from coronavirus have been vaccinated (elderly and ECV) and now vaccinations are available to the clinically vulnerable too.

Again, because they are not protected until they are two weeks after their second dose. Only 0.85% of the UK population have had two doses. (I don't know which percentage would be two weeks ago, but presumably even lower).

Source: ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

they are not protected until they are two weeks after their second dose.

Good news! Both Pfizer and AZ give significant protection after the first jab.

I agree, it’s horse shit. Most people had a 99% chance of surviving it anyway, so now we’ve destroyed our economy and peoples mental health AND the most vulnerable have been vaccinated, we need to get our lives back. It’s gone on long enough.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss
Children won’t be (vaccinated), most staff wont be as not yet had vaccines and parents who then go into workplaces
But children aren’t going to be vaccinated. Parents and vulnerable teachers will have been vaccinated and frankly everyone else has to realise they’re as likely to die from some other cause as they are from coronavirus.

Only a tiny, tiny percentage of U.K. population is fully vaccinated

Yes, and that's another narrative that's changed. Whatever happened to "the first jab gives plenty of protection and the second just a bit more"?

And that's without the gamble taken by stratching out the Pfizer jabs without knowing if it'll work or not ... potentially yet another nail in the coffin of that silver bullet