What’s the point of vaccinations when still nothing is deemed ‘safe’?

[katieloves]

Just really struggling with this. We’re doing an amazing job and have so far vaccinated the people most likely to succumb to coronavirus and are cracking on with the people less vulnerable. But still it seems all news is bad and no end in sight. Looks likely that we’ll be lucky if only the youngest get back to school from the 8th and not much chance of secondary schools back until after Easter. It just doesn’t make sense to me at all. Most DC are struggling now - their lives are on hold (I appreciate some dc are thriving with home learning but this is not true for any of the dc I know). Motivation for is on a fine line and who can blame them? But apparently school’s not ‘safe’ even though the most vulnerable are vaccinated. People saying we’ll be back to where we were before lockdown if schools go back in full and hospitals will be overwhelmed. Why??? We’ve vaccinated the most vulnerable. I’m honestly loosing the will.

Good news! Both Pfizer and AZ give significant protection after the first jab.

Not sure why pp are still ignoring this

Good news! Both Pfizer and AZ give significant protection after the first jab

Thanks for reminding us, GoldenOmber - it's a while since I've seen that one

It won't be enough for some though; the only acceptable outcome is one where nobody ever gets a sniffle dies, and the fact this will never be possible is brushed aside

It’s about how well the hospitals can cope. The more infections the less able hospitals are to look after us when we need it. The hospitals aren’t just full of those most at risk. ICU have a mix of ages including fit young people. We just need to hold on for vaccines to be more widely administered and better weather. If we ignore the rules and do what we want then the restrictions will last longer.

This is shit. It’s shit in some way for most people. For some it’s even shittier but it is what it is. We just need to do our best to stay away from other people for a little while longer.

@MarshaBradyo

Good news! Both Pfizer and AZ give significant protection after the first jab.

Not sure why pp are still ignoring this

I’m going to optimistically assume they maybe just hadn’t heard yet.

@GoldenOmber

they are not protected until they are two weeks after their second dose.

Good news! Both Pfizer and AZ give significant protection after the first jab.

Yes, that is true there is protection. But that is also 22 days after the jab it is not instant. I am concerned that in this rush to say "everyone is vaccinated" people are not pausing to allow the vaccines to take effect. The body needs time to build antibodies.

Trust me, as a teacher in close touch with 60 families, I know how hard it is and how desperate people are. (And I have been in school every day since March before people call me work shy and wanting schools closed). I just want us to take an informed route out of this mess.

If we allow a semi-vaccinated or non-vaccinated population to mix in huge numbers we are making it easier for the virus to mutate. It is because I recognise how desperately we need some normality that I want us out of this in a sustainable way.

@dementedma

As someone who works in an office and therefore "non-essential", i am.still being forced to work at home. For nearly a year I have worked from a laptop on my knee, on a pillow,on the kitchen table..depending where I can find a space. I havent seen most of my team since March last year. Our office is huge and totally covid compliant in terms of sanitising stations, space, one way systems etc. And unlike shops, the general public dont come in. But STILL we are told we cant go into work. Staff are bored, lonely, isolated and irritable. Morale is at rock bottom despite some of us having been vaccinated. We feel like the forgotten workforce and mental health is shot to shit. We cannot be expected to continue like this for months on end when all the approved procedures are in place!

It's ridiculous. I hope you are able to go back in soon.

Personally, going forwards, I'd support a voluntary wfh/work in office.

Good news! Both Pfizer and AZ give significant protection after the first jab
Exactly this. If it wasn’t the case they wouldn’t have rolled out the vaccines as they have.

@MarshaBradyo

Good news! Both Pfizer and AZ give significant protection after the first jab.

Not sure why pp are still ignoring this

It is true. I was not strictly accurate above for which I apologise.

But it is not immediately "after the first jab". You still need time to build antibodies.

@katieloves good luck - there's just no talking to the majority of MNers about Covid/vaccination - you can quote facts, science and even attach data, but you'll be told you're wrong and that a SARs virus will kill anyone and that we must get to "zero Covid" FFS!
I will say this, the vaccine trials end in 2023, so whilst they are being administered, they are still being 'tested' if you like, even Boris said last week that he still doesn't have the "data" to confirm how well vaccines are doing. We're told by the virologists that the vaccine lessens symptoms. We know what needs to happen: vaccinate those who need it and those who want it and stop mass-testing healthy people.
Nepal stopped testing and they've gone back to 'normal'.
Any virologist will tell you, it's insane to continue testing, esp. with a test with a ct of 40-45 !!! when the infection rate is so low.
Dozens upon dozens of paediactric studies into children and Covid.
It's all gone to people's heads. So long as furlough is keeping people warm and fed, there's no hope. Mental wellbeing means FA to pro-lockdowners. If they want to stay home, let them.
This is no life.

[quote katieloves]@IceCreamAndCandyfloss
Children won’t be (vaccinated), most staff wont be as not yet had vaccines and parents who then go into workplaces
But children aren’t going to be vaccinated. Parents and vulnerable teachers will have been vaccinated and frankly everyone else has to realise they’re as likely to die from some other cause as they are from coronavirus.[/quote]
Exactly this.

But it is not immediately "after the first jab". You still need time to build antibodies.

True but isn’t that why March 8th became a meaningful date - giving the time after first groups are complete mid Feb

All restrictions won’t lift immediately as ICU isn’t just first four groups and variant control but I do feel that first dose and wait is built into the plan

I don't think questions about the efficacy of the vaccines would be even nearly as much of a consideration as they are if we had stopped transmission more effectively. It's all inter related isn't it.

I mean if we were looking at the same infection rate as Taiwan or Singapore or similar, it wouldn't really matter so much how vaccinated people coped/transmitted after one dose or with the AZ as opposed to the Pfizer. But as it is, numbers of infections are still so high that we're already seeing mutations which potentially undo the benefits of the vaccines and also potentially put people outside of the priority groups at increased risk of severe illness.

It would be a massive waste of time, effort and money (not to mention life!) to allow it to circulate freely given this.

Ah yes, the 'people are very impatient' line. Except that it has been a year now. And now there is a vaccine available to the most vulnerable in most cases. Hence the OP's original post.

But yeah carry on with the softly, softly, bingo.

Talk about waste of time, effort and money to people that have lost everything, Somewhere.

Salutes @VenusTiger!

And I dare not think about when we will be 'allowed' to no longer wear masks .

Well we haven't vaccinated the most vulnerable. Many still need their second vaccination.

As soon as DD16 is back at school, I'll let her do whatever the hell she wants. I'm sick of her being sick of it.
We need to remember everything comes with risk. Just wait until this is over and the government has to run an information campaign telling people it is safe to go outside because they've been brainwashed and scared themselves so much.
DD has said she's not keen on a vaccine, I'm not keen on a vaccine. I think once groups 1-6 are done (2 doses) we can largely get on with it.

@TheCatThatGotTheCream

Well we haven't vaccinated the most vulnerable. Many still need their second vaccination.

sigh yes WE KNOW you don’t have to shit over every little grain of hope

we must get to "zero Covid" FFS!

If we want to have meaningful participation in pretty much anything globally then yes, we do. Because this is what several powerful countries have done. Ditto the smaller up and running economies that are positioning themselves towards them. And all the time we fuck around with Xmas easing and masks are muzzles bullshit, the more our cases rise and the further we are falling behind.

I mean ok, if you really think that the right to have a "normal" life trumps the fact that the UK is increasingly becoming seen as a plague ridden isolationist crackpot with a fucked economy and a crazy high cost of living ... you're certainly within your rights to argue for it. It looks a bit daft though.

@SomewhereUpMyArse

we must get to "zero Covid" FFS!

If we want to have meaningful participation in pretty much anything globally then yes, we do. Because this is what several powerful countries have done. Ditto the smaller up and running economies that are positioning themselves towards them. And all the time we fuck around with Xmas easing and masks are muzzles bullshit, the more our cases rise and the further we are falling behind.

I mean ok, if you really think that the right to have a "normal" life trumps the fact that the UK is increasingly becoming seen as a plague ridden isolationist crackpot with a fucked economy and a crazy high cost of living ... you're certainly within your rights to argue for it. It looks a bit daft though.

Do you think that zero Covid countries won’t open up borders after they gave vaccinated adults?

There’s a difference between “you don’t get full benefit until the second dose” and “you don’t get any benefit until the second dose”, and I’m really not sure why so many people have got so fixed on thinking the second one’s true fir these vaccines when the evidence is otherwise.

If I said I’m glad my toddler had had the MMR, would you say “ahh but he’s not REALLY been VACCINATED until he’s 3”?

How are we going to meaningfully participate in anything globally with borders closed indefinitely?

Do you think that zero Covid countries won’t open up borders after they gave vaccinated adults?

Sure, to other zero Covid countries. To us? I guess it depends on how our mutations go.

Like I say, look at restrictions already in place for tb and the like.

The groups that make up most of the hospitalisations still haven’t been vaccinated. Hospital numbers are still only just below what they where at the peak in April

I wonder if this is all people hospitalised with Covid or is it because they are testing much more than in April and are picking up all infections of patients that caught Covid in hospital. So is this that there are more patients in hospital ‘with’ Covid or because of Covid.