No school for us til 9th April at the earliest. Royally fucked off now.

[WeAreFromThePlanetDuplo]

Announcement just made for NI that most kids won't be going back to school until after the Easter holidays, and there's no guarantee of that. So fed up.

@CrumpetTastic

‘ I just cannot support schools being closed any longer seeing the suffering of children’

I can’t stand reading these statements any longer whilst there’s children at the other side of the world that don’t even get clean water never mind an education.
I can’t imagine getting coronavirus would be fun for many children or their families either.
Nothing is ideal at the moment, it’s shit for everyone but that does not equate to suffering. Children in abusive situations need to be dealt with separately.

Why are we comparing our children to those in the third world...in what life do we accept such a low bar for the next generation, as stupid as the war comparisons. Is catching corona fun? - for some it’s a none issue, they are asymptomatic or have little more than a cold so get a grip.

I can’t stand reading these statements any longer whilst there’s children at the other side of the world that don’t even get clean water never mind an education.

Well personally I find it very interesting that people are prepared to tolerate very high levels of entirely preventable deaths from basic diseases among people of all ages in poor countries across the world.

Yet think we should be shutting society down for a virus with a tiny FR in all but the oldest of our population.

TheKeatingFive only 1 ICU doctor in our chums but lots of cardiologists and respiratory consultants..

@CrumpetTastic

‘ I just cannot support schools being closed any longer seeing the suffering of children’

I can’t stand reading these statements any longer whilst there’s children at the other side of the world that don’t even get clean water never mind an education.
I can’t imagine getting coronavirus would be fun for many children or their families either.
Nothing is ideal at the moment, it’s shit for everyone but that does not equate to suffering. Children in abusive situations need to be dealt with separately.

What a foolish comparison.

CrumpetTastic we need to remember AVERAGE age of someone dying with COVID is GREATER than average life expectancy in UK. Some 75% of deaths are in those aged over 75. Not to say these people have no value but the likelihood of them dying in the next 10 years is reasonably high. They have mostly been vaccinated now. We are putting our children's education and mental health at stake to protect them. Its been a torrid time for families - we know 5 families who have split up during the last 12 months which is unusually high, we know of 2 suicides and still don't know anyone die of COVID. I'm very sad for any death but we seem to have lost all perspective.

@MrPickles73

I saw a friend yesterday.. her primary aged kids get 1-1.5 hrs each every morning of online lessons per day and that is it. After lockdown #1 already her middle child was a year behind. And she is a teacher herself... What about the children who need 1:1 help.. we're happy to leave them til after Easter and in the worse case everyone can redo a year?! What cr@p.

Do you realise that if kids were in school they would only get around 1.5hrs of 'teaching' a day?

Teachers don't stand for 6 hrs lecturing at the front of the classroom contrary to common belief. On an average (Primary School - 4 lessons) you would 'teach' numeracy/literacy for approx 20 mins each then wider curriculum would be less.

These threads always highlight how little people know about the inner workings of the classroom.

@CrumpetTastic

‘ I just cannot support schools being closed any longer seeing the suffering of children’

I can’t stand reading these statements any longer whilst there’s children at the other side of the world that don’t even get clean water never mind an education.
I can’t imagine getting coronavirus would be fun for many children or their families either.
Nothing is ideal at the moment, it’s shit for everyone but that does not equate to suffering. Children in abusive situations need to be dealt with separately.

Well there's always someone worse off isnt there? Statements like that are ridiculous. We dont live on the other side of the world. We live here. Education is (last time i checked) essential. Have things really got so bad that our expectations for our children are so low that we are going around saying "well at least you've got clean drinking water" ?

I can’t stand reading these statements any longer whilst there’s children at the other side of the world that don’t even get clean water never mind an education.

Why on earth are we comparing our children with those of the third world?! Why set the bar so low?

The damage to our children is massive and it will affect our country's human capital for many years to come.

@Saoirse7 totally agree.

Saoirse7 I realise in a school day atleast 1.5 hours is lunchtime and breaks and there will be another hour of going to the toilet, lining up etc so I would have thought there was 3 hours a day of actual teaching going on?? Otherwise why do we bother with school at age 4 . We could start at 8 and finish at the same point at age 11?

@angrysquirrel73 so parents work!! School is just as much a childcare facility as it’s a place of learning.

@Saoirse7 I don't think anyone thinks that children spend 6 hours per day at school learning. In terms of actual learning, I'd imagine that learning at home is more effective/efficient for many (as in the case of two of my DC - one hates it, the other varies according to mood, but he's only 5).

DC4's reception teacher highlighted this to me, pointing out that they'd spend most of their time at school playing, albeit with specialist input to ensure they learn through it.

I'm not terribly concerned about my children's academic attainment but the lack of peer contact is proving disastrous for one of them. I have no way of recreating this from home (he hates online contact).

CKBJ I've never been a fan of the in Finland they don't start school til 7 theory but there they have state subsidised nurseries / kindergarten til 7. Due to the high cost of living in scandinavia a high proportion of women work so childcare shouldn't be an issue.
TBH I work full time but I've not considered school primarily as childcare ..

Its just a bit of an expose to find out that there's only 1.5 hours of teaching in a 6 hour school day. 50% less than I had assumed! No wonder we the UK is not setting the world alight educationally.

SpencerGregson agreed, I'm not worried about my children's progress its more social skills, mental health and the progress of the whole cohort.

@angrysquirrel73 there is a lot of busywork in classrooms as well as routines and behaviour management-that's your other 50%.

@angrysquirrel73

CKBJ I've never been a fan of the in Finland they don't start school til 7 theory but there they have state subsidised nurseries / kindergarten til 7. Due to the high cost of living in scandinavia a high proportion of women work so childcare shouldn't be an issue. TBH I work full time but I've not considered school primarily as childcare ..

Its just a bit of an expose to find out that there's only 1.5 hours of teaching in a 6 hour school day. 50% less than I had assumed! No wonder we the UK is not setting the world alight educationally.

It’s not setting the world alight for various reasons. Being one of the biggest culprits for ability grouping in the world. Teaching to a test, we test our children and flight path them from age 4 - shocking really.

I worry for my children as we both work full time - so they have had to have a free reign on devices for most of the day so we can work and try not to get sacked.

This is the issue the schools are shut and parents who work have been asked to perform the impossible - appreciate its working well for some people but it is.

Even saying this I've never wanted Schools to open at any cost - here they are opening in a phased way through March and after Easter and that seems reasonable to me

What gets my goat in these threads is the rudeness to people that are struggling at home, that want to say they are fucked off with it all and the banal suggestions given to solve your problems. I need not to be working, or I need kids in school - either of these things would solve my problems and not much else.

What is missing in the 'live input followed by response' model of teaching that online learning favours is all the incidental, responsive teaching that happens in the classroom.

So a typical 'classroom' lesson would nominally have the same 'input' as online, but as a teacher you are constantly scanning the classroom - who is looking puzzled? Who has a question? Do I need to go faster / slower?

Then there would be some interactive practice of what is being taught - children might try a sentence on a whiteboard or do a couple of calculations and show their answers; the teacher might scribe a few sentences following children's suggestions; there might be some questions and answers; children might work in pairs or groups to generate ideas.

Then children would do the task - again nominally the same task as set online - but there would be much more interaction - let's check the answer to the first question; I can see that everyone's finding number 6 tricky, let's have a go together; read your story opening to your partner and get some feedback from them; remember the spelling of homophones. There would also be 1:1 or small group support, either planned or reactive.

There would also be some kind of wrap up - sharing of work done, checking answers and finding any that caused particular problems, checking against objectives.

Online learning can replicate the 'formal' stage of the teaching process, but can't replicate the 'informal' teaching that makes up the majority of the time in each lesson.

@angrysquirrel73

Saoirse7 I realise in a school day atleast 1.5 hours is lunchtime and breaks and there will be another hour of going to the toilet, lining up etc so I would have thought there was 3 hours a day of actual teaching going on?? Otherwise why do we bother with school at age 4 . We could start at 8 and finish at the same point at age 11?

Again, actual teaching is approx 15-20 mins a lesson. Teaching has moved on a lot from a teacher dictating at the front of a room. In Primary School a teacher should aim to spend 20 mins or less talking with the rest of the lesson spend completing activities/discussing the work etc.

Teachers do a lot of practical activities, paired activities, group activities etc. we do not stand at the front of a room and talk for an hour. I do not understand why people want teacher to sit on Zoom the whole day just for the sake of it when there it has absolutely minimal impact.

@angrysquirrel73

CKBJ I've never been a fan of the in Finland they don't start school til 7 theory but there they have state subsidised nurseries / kindergarten til 7. Due to the high cost of living in scandinavia a high proportion of women work so childcare shouldn't be an issue. TBH I work full time but I've not considered school primarily as childcare ..

Its just a bit of an expose to find out that there's only 1.5 hours of teaching in a 6 hour school day. 50% less than I had assumed! No wonder we the UK is not setting the world alight educationally.

The UK is not setting the world alight because the education system is far far too intense. Children start school too young. Also, the school day in England is much too long.

@cantkeepawayforever

What is missing in the 'live input followed by response' model of teaching that online learning favours is all the incidental, responsive teaching that happens in the classroom.

So a typical 'classroom' lesson would nominally have the same 'input' as online, but as a teacher you are constantly scanning the classroom - who is looking puzzled? Who has a question? Do I need to go faster / slower?

Then there would be some interactive practice of what is being taught - children might try a sentence on a whiteboard or do a couple of calculations and show their answers; the teacher might scribe a few sentences following children's suggestions; there might be some questions and answers; children might work in pairs or groups to generate ideas.

Then children would do the task - again nominally the same task as set online - but there would be much more interaction - let's check the answer to the first question; I can see that everyone's finding number 6 tricky, let's have a go together; read your story opening to your partner and get some feedback from them; remember the spelling of homophones. There would also be 1:1 or small group support, either planned or reactive.

There would also be some kind of wrap up - sharing of work done, checking answers and finding any that caused particular problems, checking against objectives.

Online learning can replicate the 'formal' stage of the teaching process, but can't replicate the 'informal' teaching that makes up the majority of the time in each lesson.

Agree with this too, particularly for younger ages.

@siestalady
do you have actual credible data for this, or was it just something you vaguely heard from your TV whilst doing something else?
It was the actually one of the Government’s Scientific Advisers talking about these figures, hence my drip feed comment. Are you always so sarcastic and unpleasant?

cantkeepawayforever I think you've captured it brilliantly. Parents understand that teachers can 'lecture' over teams but the interactive, feedback bit is really hard as is helping individuals. And this is what children really need and are missing out with during online learning.

Saoirse7 so is this a conclusion? The current school day is so inefficient lets replace it with nurseries until age 7 and try starting then and we'll still be at the same point at age 11?

*posted too soon

The English education system is also not setting the world alight because of:

• Intensive testing from 5 years old (phonics screening?? Wtf) SATs then in year two as well.

• Intense pressure of teachers from Ofsted, teachers end up doing time intensive things for the benefit of Ofsted and not for the children. Eg over marking of books

• Focus on ability groups - children pigeon holed throughout their whole school life

• The changes to the curriculum under Gove, look at the Literacy objectives FFS how stupid.

• Gross underachievement in areas of poverty

I could go on. I have taught in England and NI and I have to say from a child centred perspective the NI one (while not perfect) is miles and away a better education system.