Stop the doom narrative and campaign to plug the gap.

[SmileEachDay]

The constant narrative from groups like U4T, the wider media AND (if MN is representative) individuals that children now are “a lost generation” and that they will “never catch up” is tremendously damaging.

They may well not be at exactly the (completely arbitrary) age related expectation. Perhaps they aren’t quite at the (complete arbitrary) progress point at secondary. Yes, the GCSE and Alevel students are having a difficult time, and their results will be reached in a different way.

But...

We won’t motivate children or families if we tell them it’s a lost cause.

The EEF are estimating that on average children are two months behind where they “should” (based on an arbitrary measure) be. It’s worse for children from a disadvantaged background - as it has always been.
Rather than claiming they’ll never catch up, would it not be more helpful to:

Tell kids that yes, it’s been tough but that they’ll still reach their potential AND then plough our time and resources into really closing the disadvantage gap. That’s going to mean government funding for educational support services, SEMH services, support for families, literacy support where appropriate, Surestart, youth mentoring - and that’s just off the top of my head.

I got annoyed that a poster is declaring people didn’t care before - well the majority. But the majority who are probably shouting the loudest are the disadvantaged. Families have been asking for help for years and often faced with a brick wall from schools/LA and I can assure you it’s all individual fights there was no MN thread after thread of support for them

I don’t understand why you are angry with me. My issue is with - as I said - the media/organisations/individuals who have previously not given a shiny shit about disadvantaged children but who now are shouting very loudly about how badly they have been let down. They are disingenuous and self serving.

Dearymesheila, I'm sorry that you have been shouting loudly and were unheard to get help for your disadvantaged children. Unfortunately schools are not in control of cuts to funding. What help were you hoping for that faced a brick wall? I know lots of services have been cut back and the OP was saying this is where funding now needs to be prioritised.

@Dearymesheila,

'That’s bollocks. Many business spent fortunes making their place of work covid secure, especially hospitality and the beauty trade. Your post is beyond patronising and your analogy is shit and offensive.

The closure of non essential business is an awful decision based on the views of the very same men who said lock down didn’t work a year ago.'

You cannot go accusing others of trying to close down the conversation and then use the 'patronising' and 'offensive' words. Methinks you doth protest too much.

There is no such thing as 'COVID secure' sadly and restaurants and the beauty industry were making a significant contribution to the r number. I cannot deny that they tried really hard to make their businesses secure but people just don't behave sensibly within them.

The closure of non-essential businesses was the only sensible measure to get cases down, get the vaccination programme on track and, ultimately, get all these businesses up and running properly again.

It amazes me that people can think supporting the views of the vast majority (95% +) of people who have studied this kind of thing all their lives are being patronising. The 'men' (many of whom are women) making these decisions are relying on the best expert advice that they can buy.

If you remember, BJ was very keen to get herd immunity through just letting COVID run wild. He then saw the projections (from experts) of what this would actually imply, and rapidly changed his mind.

And WTF is ‘them4us types’ ?? Parents who want their kids in school? How is wanting your children in school classed as a negative type of ‘people’

No. Not parents who want their kids in schools.

Parents who want their children in schools with no safer measures at all. None. They want children back completely normally as if Covid does not exist.

They refuse to acknowledge that this approach has been partly to blame for the current lockdown we are in.

Us4Them have actively campaigned against masks in schools (and threatened legal action), don’t want social distancing, don’t want children to self isolate due to positive cases because that means having to remotely learn at home (and they have recorded and published actual live lessons and mocked them as part of their ‘cause’)

They have also aligned themselves as the same as those families in Argentina who’s children have been murdered/gone missing and refused to take distressing photos down if this. even from requests of their own members.

If you dig around at the adults who have sent this up, many do not even have children but know that if they want their businesses to open, they need schools to be open first.

Really, this is not a group that you would want to align yourself with.

If you want your children back in schools and to stay back in school, acknowledging the WHO guidelines would be the most sensible choice.

And WTF is ‘them4us types’ ?? Parents who want their kids in school? How is wanting your children in school classed as a negative type of ‘people’.
No, it isn't parents who want their children in school.

If you are unfamiliar with U4T, then maybe it would have been worth clarifying what I was posting about before getting confrontational.

@ChloeDecker

And WTF is ‘them4us types’ ?? Parents who want their kids in school? How is wanting your children in school classed as a negative type of ‘people’

No. Not parents who want their kids in schools.

Parents who want their children in schools with no safer measures at all. None. They want children back completely normally as if Covid does not exist.

They refuse to acknowledge that this approach has been partly to blame for the current lockdown we are in.

Us4Them have actively campaigned against masks in schools (and threatened legal action), don’t want social distancing, don’t want children to self isolate due to positive cases because that means having to remotely learn at home (and they have recorded and published actual live lessons and mocked them as part of their ‘cause’)

They have also aligned themselves as the same as those families in Argentina who’s children have been murdered/gone missing and refused to take distressing photos down if this. even from requests of their own members.

If you dig around at the adults who have sent this up, many do not even have children but know that if they want their businesses to open, they need schools to be open first.

Really, this is not a group that you would want to align yourself with.

If you want your children back in schools and to stay back in school, acknowledging the WHO guidelines would be the most sensible choice.

On the first landing page it says they support the vast majority of precautionary hygiene measures.

Stop trying to demonise parents who want their children back in school.

On the first landing page it says they support the vast majority of precautionary hygiene measures.

Stop trying to demonise parents who want their children back in school.

You need to read a bit more than just the first page.

Even on the first page though, they still use the word ‘normally’ about going back to school.

Honestly. I am a parent who wants my child back in school.
But I am also a parent who had the stress of multiple self isolation periods last term because of the lack of safety measures in school. I even caught Covid that way.

I am not the enemy here. I do not want schools (even in just individual cases) to close again. I want them open and know that unless more safety measures are implemented, we will be back to square one.
I would hope you feel the same way too.

Anyway, back to the point of the thread after this derail, I have finally written my letter to my MP and sent it through that link.
Small steps I suppose!

@LolaSmiles

And WTF is ‘them4us types’ ?? Parents who want their kids in school? How is wanting your children in school classed as a negative type of ‘people’. No, it isn't parents who want their children in school.

If you are unfamiliar with U4T, then maybe it would have been worth clarifying what I was posting about before getting confrontational.

Your labelling parents who want their children in school ‘types’ Lola to shut them down. Steady your mask is slipping.

@ChloeDecker

On the first landing page it says they support the vast majority of precautionary hygiene measures.

Stop trying to demonise parents who want their children back in school.

You need to read a bit more than just the first page.

Even on the first page though, they still use the word ‘normally’ about going back to school.

Honestly. I am a parent who wants my child back in school.
But I am also a parent who had the stress of multiple self isolation periods last term because of the lack of safety measures in school. I even caught Covid that way.

I am not the enemy here. I do not want schools (even in just individual cases) to close again. I want them open and know that unless more safety measures are implemented, we will be back to square one.
I would hope you feel the same way too.

Anyway, back to the point of the thread after this derail, I have finally written my letter to my MP and sent it through that link.
Small steps I suppose!

I’m in the North West and we’ve ZERO cases at our school. That’s probably why we have a different outlook

On the first landing page it says they support the vast majority of precautionary hygiene measures.

And here's a tweet where they talk about having lawyers preparing to take action against heads who mandate masks in schools.

They've done a bit of a clean-up job of the website after they were exposed a few weeks ago as a fake grassroots group being advised by some Tory PR bloke.

bylinetimes.com/2021/01/21/parents-campaign-against-school-closures-receives-pr-support-from-boris-johnson-advisor/

I’m in the North West and we’ve ZERO cases at our school.

Which is unusual for the North West according to the school attendance data which was lowest for the country in the North West before half term.

I’m in the North West and we’ve ZERO cases at our school. That’s probably why we have a different outlook

What, the fact I am not only thinking of my children but all other children, in my desire to do everything I can to keep them in school but not only that, when they are in school, to want every possible support to be available to children so that they can work towards a better future?

Yeah. My outlook is just terrible

[quote noblegiraffe]On the first landing page it says they support the vast majority of precautionary hygiene measures.

And here's a tweet where they talk about having lawyers preparing to take action against heads who mandate masks in schools.

They've done a bit of a clean-up job of the website after they were exposed a few weeks ago as a fake grassroots group being advised by some Tory PR bloke.

bylinetimes.com/2021/01/21/parents-campaign-against-school-closures-receives-pr-support-from-boris-johnson-advisor/[/quote]
Ah right... that was interesting.

So we are now at the point where teachers are calling parents who want their children in school a derogatory name - U4them ‘type’.

Wow that’s a hell of a lot of shady Tory lobbyists. You should however try and read different material other than staunch Tory haters. Your views will become to polarised and make it hard for you to accept other people have different valid views. I always think it’s off when reporters tweet personal attacks on people.

Your views will become to polarised and make it hard for you to accept other people have different valid views.

What exactly is your full view on the matter the OP is referring to but also the matter that you have brought up, in this thread?

So we are now at the point where teachers are calling parents who want their children in school a derogatory name

No, we aren't.

@noblegiraffe

So we are now at the point where teachers are calling parents who want their children in school a derogatory name

No, we aren't.

‘U4them types’ isnt a derogatory name? You should go back through your posts - not just on this thread and reread what you’ve said about them.

Your labelling parents who want their children in school ‘types’ Lola to shut them down. Steady your mask is slipping.
That's nice dear. Still trying to be confrontational there I see.

If you think someone saying 'I want students in school' means labelling parents who want their children in school and that explicitly stating that being an U4T person is not the same as a parent wanting children in school, then I'm afraid any discussion is a lost cause.

Either you are incapable of following a debate or are so wedded to being goady that you will continue to repeat the same claims over and over and over again.

Parents who want their kids back at school aren't 'Us4Them types'.

I'm a parent, I want my kid back at school and I'm definitely not an Us4Them type.

Because I want it to be done in a sensible and sustainable way.

As far as I can tell Us4Them want kids in school as normal and then lockdown. They must WANT lockdown or they wouldn't want to do things this way. After all, kids in other countries following WHO guidelines have avoided a second full lockdown, unlike kids in this country and the big difference is things like masks, rotas etc.

Lockdown is the consequence of allowing groups of people to mix inside with no safety measures. We have actually seen this happen once.

So we are now at the point where teachers are calling parents who want their children in school a derogatory name - U4them ‘type’.

At least this is slightly different from the usual attack.

It still have very little substance or basis in fact.

You should go back through your posts - not just on this thread and reread what you’ve said about them.

Seriously. Do some reading on what actually Us4Them and Us4ThemScotland actually is about and what they say. ‘Us4Them-type’ is not referring to ‘parents who want their children to go back to school’.
If you do actually spend some time reading about them and what they talk about, I’d be interested to find out how you view the language that they themselves use.

And, again, what is your view on what is being discussed here?

@ChloeDecker

Your views will become to polarised and make it hard for you to accept other people have different valid views.

What exactly is your full view on the matter the OP is referring to but also the matter that you have brought up, in this thread?

They may well not be at exactly the (completely arbitrary) age related expectation. Perhaps they aren’t quite at the (complete arbitrary) progress point at secondary. Yes, the GCSE and Alevel students are having a difficult time, and their results will be reached in a different way

This entire paragraph is minimising. And then the OP basically goes on to blames the parents for basically making a big fuss about it and making it seem worse.

Nothing before but really counts doesn’t it. The post was patronising and wanting support in quickly moving on and suggesting quick fixes.

My view is that you cannot move on till it’s been properly acknowledged which will never happen as it will trigger a time limit.

There will be absolutely fuck all spent on schools after this mess If you think you have it bad now - wait for the next few years!

The kids are in a really bad position now and an even worse one for the foreseeable years to come in education.

State education will be absolutely fucked after this.

And, again, what is your view on what is being discussed here?
I think their whole approach seems to be argue that any criticism of the U4T agenda equals criticising parents who want children in schools, then repeat variations of this ad nauseam (all whilst apparently having no idea about U4T, but enough knowledge to claim that U4T criticisms equals belittling parents, the lack of logic is strong).

Anyway, back to the point of the thread after this derail, I have finally written my letter to my MP and sent it through that link

Great Chloe. Would you be prepared to share an anonymised version? No worries if not!