Stop the doom narrative and campaign to plug the gap.

[SmileEachDay]

The constant narrative from groups like U4T, the wider media AND (if MN is representative) individuals that children now are “a lost generation” and that they will “never catch up” is tremendously damaging.

They may well not be at exactly the (completely arbitrary) age related expectation. Perhaps they aren’t quite at the (complete arbitrary) progress point at secondary. Yes, the GCSE and Alevel students are having a difficult time, and their results will be reached in a different way.

But...

We won’t motivate children or families if we tell them it’s a lost cause.

The EEF are estimating that on average children are two months behind where they “should” (based on an arbitrary measure) be. It’s worse for children from a disadvantaged background - as it has always been.
Rather than claiming they’ll never catch up, would it not be more helpful to:

Tell kids that yes, it’s been tough but that they’ll still reach their potential AND then plough our time and resources into really closing the disadvantage gap. That’s going to mean government funding for educational support services, SEMH services, support for families, literacy support where appropriate, Surestart, youth mentoring - and that’s just off the top of my head.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@TheDailyCarbunkle,

And your solution? Might we have something based on reality and not total fantasy?

China won the ‘pissing contest’ and did pretty well out of it, as have Australia and NZ.

Wanting something to be so does not make it so. Nearly all worthwhile research (not the one mid level university research paper that you can dig up) shows that behavioural modifications are the best response until vaccinations kick in, which, surprisingly (not) is what is informing the ‘pissing contest’ that you refer to.[/quote]
How about balancing the need to control one virus against the many many other needs that people have? Like work and education? Like a functioning economy?

Given that you've mentioned Australia and NZ, that gives me the opportunity to mention Sweden. If you'd like to argue how Sweden is so terribly different and has had all these failures etc my response is that you can't bring up NZ, a country with one-thirteenth the population of the UK, an extremely isolated island and then claim Sweden is 'different.' So I'm not having that argument with you. I would also add that Australia and NZ will at some point have to open their borders at which point they will have a rise in cases. They could well be stuck in lockdowns for years if they want to keep pursuing their zero-covid approach. So I don't think we can say yet how 'well' they've done.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@TheDailyCarbunkle,

You are determined to pretend that the pandemic is some kind of catalyst for the government to institute some kind of sinister plot. Quite what this is you are less enthusiastic about explaining.

A pandemic is a once in 5 generation event which all governments are struggling to deal with, bar China which has imposed a solution which, though successful, just would not be accepted in many other countries.

It is true that some have been lucky (online businesses) and there have been some charlatans who have abused the emergency response to enrich themselves.

However, in the main, the loss of education and livelihoods have been caused by Covid 19, not the policy response. The idea that the policy response to COVID has destroyed livelihoods and education is analogous to telling a battered woman that she is to blame for breaking up the family when she leaves her husband.[/quote]
That’s bollocks. Many business spent fortunes making their place of work covid secure, especially hospitality and the beauty trade. Your post is beyond patronising and your analogy is shit and offensive.

The closure of non essential business is an awful decision based on the views of the very same men who said lock down didn’t work a year ago.

who'd have believed before 2020 that parents would not only accept their children being denied access to school, but actually demand it

And there we have it. That’s why the doom mongering “lost generation” suits you better than engaging with teachers who may actually have some ideas about how we support children to move forward.

@TheDailyCarbunkle

Be careful *@Dearymesheila*, apparently if you agree that children need education and should be in school then you must be in cahoots with some shady organisation who for some reason are using children's welfare as a front for their unspecified dodgy dealings. That's a humdinger of a conspiracy theory, given that it doesn't even really make any sense.

It’s just to close down conversation. I think they fear if too many people start discussing it a revolution shall occur

Dearymesheila

Do you have any opinions on anything in the OP? How do you think we help our children move forwards?

@SmileEachDay

who'd have believed before 2020 that parents would not only accept their children being denied access to school, but actually demand it

And there we have it. That’s why the doom mongering “lost generation” suits you better than engaging with teachers who may actually have some ideas about how we support children to move forward.

I never said anything about a 'lost generation' - I think that's fucking stupid phrase. They're not lost they're just let down, totally and utterly let down. And we as the generation of parents and adults responsible should try to fix it for them but I have no faith that we can, given that we're the one who let them down in the first place.

I do understand you wanting to be optimistic and I think there's nothing wrong with that. But I think you need a large dose of reality in there too if you're going to actually address the real problems.

@SmileEachDay

who'd have believed before 2020 that parents would not only accept their children being denied access to school, but actually demand it

And there we have it. That’s why the doom mongering “lost generation” suits you better than engaging with teachers who may actually have some ideas about how we support children to move forward.

Move forward? Are you joking? It has to be widely accepted and admitted first and that will never happen because it will trigger a time limit. The consensus on here is that ‘the kids are fine just take them out for fresh air, twinkle is doing a grand job tra is la la la’

You can’t brush it under the carpet by moving swiftly on with quick fixes. This past year will have a detrimental effect that will last years, possibly in to adulthood.

I never said anything about a 'lost generation' - I think that's fucking stupid phrase

I know you didn’t. But it’s in the media ALL the time. That’s what my OP is about. It’s monumentally unhelpful.

My OP isn’t about optimism even - it’s about directing time and energy towards how we can support children. Looking at the reasons why some have fallen further behind and actually addressing those reasons. My position is completely based in reality - and has been for many years, during which time disadvantaged children have always been behind their peers. I have been banging that particular drum for a long time - and I don’t think the “never catch up” story from people who have never previously given a shiny shit about disadvantaged children is ok.

You can’t brush it under the carpet by moving swiftly on with quick fixes

Did you read my OP? Which ones did you think were the quick fixes? The damage to disadvantaged children has been going on far, far longer than “the past year” - it’s just that most people have only just shown an interest.

Once someone mentioned 'Twinkl' on one of these threads it's finished. No room for sensible discussion. Shame, it was going OK.

Rule

Like Godwin’s law?

@SmileEachDay

You can’t brush it under the carpet by moving swiftly on with quick fixes

Did you read my OP? Which ones did you think were the quick fixes? The damage to disadvantaged children has been going on far, far longer than “the past year” - it’s just that most people have only just shown an interest.

Oh really? Well I suppose that’s down to where you live/been brought up really. Not all of us live in a middle class bubble like on MN. Do you think your really in the minority about giving a shit about ‘disadvantaged’ kids? Do you not think for one second the majority of the parents who actually want their kids back in school are actually the disadvantaged families your talking about and I can assure you - they’ve always gave a shit about the piss poor system.

Aw a well meaning MNer who’s gonna help all the poor kids

Why does it make them an anti lock down group? Does this mean your pro lock down? (Makes sense!) and who funds them?

No, it's the fact that us4them are an anti-lockdown group that makes them an anti-lockdown group. The fact that they work with other anti-lockdown groups. The way they post on social media, the campaigns they run, and the way they desperately try to astroturf on Mumsnet and have been since last summer.

The fact that they campaigned for schools opening with no mitigation measures last September, which happened, and which led to the mess that we were in at Christmas. The fact that they are now campaigning for a return to school as soon as possible with again, no mention of making schools safer. Their constant focus on how dreadful it is for children's education and mental health, but they did not give a single shit about the education that was lost and the children that had to isolate due to the lack of mitigation measures in schools that they campaigned for.

They are hyping up how devastating it is for children in a very unhelpful way and their only solution is to lift lockdown.

Aw a well meaning MNer who’s gonna help all the poor kids flowers

Do you mean me? I just want to check exactly how daft you’re being.

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

Once someone mentioned 'Twinkl' on one of these threads it's finished. No room for sensible discussion. Shame, it was going OK.

What’s to discuss. OP is ‘banging her drum’ stating the bleedin obvious -

Disadvantaged kids don’t do as well as they could/should in education.

Only now we have to move forward as if we don’t we get accused by a complete stranger who doesn’t know me from Adam - that I didn’t give a shit before

I do understand you wanting to be optimistic and I think there's nothing wrong with that. But I think you need a large dose of reality in there too if you're going to actually address the real problems
It's not about optimism.
It's about pushing for meaningful change.

I actually get tired of the U4T types on here.

People talk about the need to open schools up with appropriate measures isn't good enough. U4T/goady types just complain that mean teachers don't want to do their jobs, nobody but them are thinking of the children, and then have a go at teachers because they don't like the suggested measures. For extra emotive point scoring some will pretend to care about educational disadvantage and mental health too.

People talk about what is needed to address the problems and meet the academic, social, emotional and mental health needs of students and the same types say "but how exactly will you afford that" and complain that any plans to address educational inequality are fanciful, stupidly optimistic, unworkable etc.

It's a bit of a silly and illogical position for people who claim to care about children's education and wellbeing.

It almost feels like the only agenda they have is to complain about anything that isn't 'open all schools immediately with limited measures and stick the boot into teachers'.

we get accused by a complete stranger who doesn’t know me from Adam - that I didn’t give a shit before confused

If you are someone who gave a shit before, then you’re not one of the people I’m talking about 🙄

@SmileEachDay

Aw a well meaning MNer who’s gonna help all the poor kids flowers

Do you mean me? I just want to check exactly how daft you’re being.

I suggest you check how sanctimonious and patronising your being first.

Stop trying to close down conversation with the new whip stick of ‘well ya didn’t care before ...’ - honestly how the fuck do you know?

@SmileEachDay

we get accused by a complete stranger who doesn’t know me from Adam - that I didn’t give a shit before confused

If you are someone who gave a shit before, then you’re not one of the people I’m talking about 🙄

Oh riiiight ‘other people’...

Yeah those ‘other’ people are fuckers...

@LolaSmiles

I do understand you wanting to be optimistic and I think there's nothing wrong with that. But I think you need a large dose of reality in there too if you're going to actually address the real problems It's not about optimism. It's about pushing for meaningful change.

I actually get tired of the U4T types on here.

People talk about the need to open schools up with appropriate measures isn't good enough. U4T/goady types just complain that mean teachers don't want to do their jobs, nobody but them are thinking of the children, and then have a go at teachers because they don't like the suggested measures. For extra emotive point scoring some will pretend to care about educational disadvantage and mental health too.

People talk about what is needed to address the problems and meet the academic, social, emotional and mental health needs of students and the same types say "but how exactly will you afford that" and complain that any plans to address educational inequality are fanciful, stupidly optimistic, unworkable etc.

It's a bit of a silly and illogical position for people who claim to care about children's education and wellbeing.

It almost feels like the only agenda they have is to complain about anything that isn't 'open all schools immediately with limited measures and stick the boot into teachers'.

U4them types?

Wow. Parents who want there children in school are types. Fuckin ell.. Is that where you are really at Lola?

Time to give up your day job love.

Stop trying to close down conversation with the new whip stick of ‘well ya didn’t care before ...’ - honestly how the fuck do you know?

Let’s start with the media. The number of reports in the papers about “lost generation”/teachers are letting down disadvantaged children” etc over the past few months?
Now - how many stories have the same papers run about disadvantaged children over the past 10 years? Fuck all.

Some posters on here - recently, loads of posts shouting “open schools/teachers are letting down disadvantaged students”. Search their history and not a single prior post about disadvantaged children.
Twitter - exactly the same story.

U4T? Well...you get the idea.

Honestly - if you are someone who does give a shit then great - so do I. I wish more people did.

Dearymesheila - I don't think anyone was accusing you in particular, although I would like to say you are being quite aggressive. The issue is the majority of people didn't care previously. Schools have been campaigning about funding inequalities for years but no one cared. All of a sudden when schools are not fully open everyone cares about the inequalities. The children who will really suffer from the lockdown aren't the middle class, rich, Us4them types but the the disadvantaged kids who are now being used to fuel their campaign. However once back in school no one will give a shit again.

*Wow. Parents who want there children in school are types. Fuckin ell.. Is that where you are really at Lola?

Time to give up your day job love.*
Full house!
It's like shouting into the void and then someone picks up a whisper or a turn of phrase that they decide is 'insulting' and off we go ...

Wow. Parents who want there children in school are types. Fuckin ell.. Is that where you are really at Lola?
Bit of an interesting reading of my post there, but hardly surprising given how these threads end up.

I want schools open. I want students in class. I want proper measures in for staff and students. I want a cohesive strategy from the DfE to plug the gaps and meaningful investment in holistic services around children, schools and families.

I have no time for the U4T types (so not all parents) who, for whatever reason, seem to complain about people wanting measures in place to open schools, complain that teachers and school leaders don't have any solutions, and then when teachers and school leaders list potential solutions still whine about how the solutions would cost money / are optimistic / are unworkable.

I don't understand for one minute why anyone who genuinely cared about children's education would be so hellbent on criticising any attempt at workable solutions beyond 'open schools as normal asap'.

@lonelyplanet

Dearymesheila - I don't think anyone was accusing you in particular, although I would like to say you are being quite aggressive. The issue is the majority of people didn't care previously. Schools have been campaigning about funding inequalities for years but no one cared. All of a sudden when schools are not fully open everyone cares about the inequalities. The children who will really suffer from the lockdown aren't the middle class, rich, Us4them types but the the disadvantaged kids who are now being used to fuel their campaign. However once back in school no one will give a shit again.

I got annoyed that a poster is declaring people didn’t care before - well the majority. But the majority who are probably shouting the loudest are the disadvantaged. Families have been asking for help for years and often faced with a brick wall from schools/LA and I can assure you it’s all individual fights there was no MN thread after thread of support for them.

And WTF is ‘them4us types’ ?? Parents who want their kids in school? How is wanting your children in school classed as a negative type of ‘people’.

It’s clear that this has now that this has come politicised. I’m sorry if you wasn’t heard in work but that’s not my fault or my neighbours or my relatives. We’ve fighting our own battles.