Stop the doom narrative and campaign to plug the gap.

[SmileEachDay]

The constant narrative from groups like U4T, the wider media AND (if MN is representative) individuals that children now are “a lost generation” and that they will “never catch up” is tremendously damaging.

They may well not be at exactly the (completely arbitrary) age related expectation. Perhaps they aren’t quite at the (complete arbitrary) progress point at secondary. Yes, the GCSE and Alevel students are having a difficult time, and their results will be reached in a different way.

But...

We won’t motivate children or families if we tell them it’s a lost cause.

The EEF are estimating that on average children are two months behind where they “should” (based on an arbitrary measure) be. It’s worse for children from a disadvantaged background - as it has always been.
Rather than claiming they’ll never catch up, would it not be more helpful to:

Tell kids that yes, it’s been tough but that they’ll still reach their potential AND then plough our time and resources into really closing the disadvantage gap. That’s going to mean government funding for educational support services, SEMH services, support for families, literacy support where appropriate, Surestart, youth mentoring - and that’s just off the top of my head.

My view is that you cannot move on till it’s been properly acknowledged which will never happen as it will trigger a time limit.

By ‘it’ I assume you mean MH issues in children or do you mean something else?
Some people are trying to acknowledge that issue. I think someone famous would be in a good place to do that, like what Marcus Rashford did for free school meals. What do you think? Do you think Us4Them should acknowledge it during schools being more open (they always go quiet then)

There will be absolutely fuck all spent on schools after this mess If you think you have it bad now - wait for the next few years!

And yet there was £1bn earmarked last June, as I referred to earlier in the thread. What do you think that should have been spent on? What do you think can be done for free, for example? Do you think anything should be done or should we just give up? I don’t want to give up on my kid and I don’t want to give up on anyone else’s.

The kids are in a really bad position now and an even worse one for the foreseeable years to come in education.

So what should be done about that? Plenty of sensible suggestions on this thread don’t you think? What do you suggest?

They may well not be at exactly the (completely arbitrary) age related expectation. Perhaps they aren’t quite at the (complete arbitrary) progress point at secondary. Yes, the GCSE and Alevel students are having a difficult time, and their results will be reached in a different way

This entire paragraph is minimising. And then the OP basically goes on to blames the parents for basically making a big fuss about it and making it seem worse

That entire paragraph is accurate. Which bit “blames parents”?

Nothing before but really counts doesn’t it. The post was patronising and wanting support in quickly moving on and suggesting quick fixes

When we’re back at school you’re damn right I’ll be hitting the ground running and moving things forward. However, can you tell me which bit of my OP suggested a quick fix?

LolaSmiles

I think their whole approach seems to be argue that any criticism of the U4T agenda equals criticising parents who want children in schools, then repeat variations of this ad nauseam (all whilst apparently having no idea about U4T, but enough knowledge to claim that U4T criticisms equals belittling parents, the lack of logic is strong).

Exactly this ^

"Nothing before but really counts doesn’t it. The post was patronising and wanting support in quickly moving on and suggesting quick fixes.

My view is that you cannot move on till it’s been properly acknowledged which will never happen as it will trigger a time limit.

There will be absolutely fuck all spent on schools after this mess If you think you have it bad now - wait for the next few years!

The kids are in a really bad position now and an even worse one for the foreseeable years to come in education"

I'm not clear what you are arguing about. What do you want it acknowledged? That all children have fallen behind? This isn't true. Most of the children I teach have kept up with their learning and will be fine on return. The ones that haven't are generally the ones from disadvantaged backgrounds who will need more support. They needed this before too.
I'm a parent I want schools open, I don't like lockdown, but I'm not an U4T type because I want it done safely and in a sustainable way to keep schools open.

I'm a parent I want schools open, I don't like lockdown, but I'm not an U4T type because I want it done safely and in a sustainable way to keep schools open
Same here.

I'm a parent I want schools open, I don't like lockdown, but I'm not an U4T type because I want it done safely and in a sustainable way to keep schools open

I want that as a parent AND as a teacher. Plus, I want some proper thought given to how we help children move forward.

I don’t know why that it remotely controversial.

@Kokeshi123

The data generally shows that when countries push to get smaller classes, teacher quality generally falls due to having to cast the net wider, and the sheer cost of hiring all those extra (not very good) teachers reduces money that could be spent on other things.

Do you have the data for this?

I don’t know why that it remotely controversial
Because some people think that if they repeat their own spin and put words in people's mouths that it will whip up more conflict between parents and teachers.

In reality most parents and teachers want the same thing, but if you're a political lobby group with your own agenda them united parents and schools is problematic so it's much better to create a narrative that present schools as the enemy.

Wanting a plan that gets schools open and families properly supported is a hugely problematic view if you're of a the political persuasion that doesn't care about your average family or the wellbeing of children.

@LolaSmiles

And, again, what is your view on what is being discussed here? I think their whole approach seems to be argue that any criticism of the U4T agenda equals criticising parents who want children in schools, then repeat variations of this ad nauseam (all whilst apparently having no idea about U4T, but enough knowledge to claim that U4T criticisms equals belittling parents, the lack of logic is strong).

Lola you need to get out if this frame of mind where every one is in some conspiracy with Us4them.

And I’m not sure if you’ve forgotten but it was YOU who coined the phrase ‘Us4them types’. It was then I looked on their website. YOU were bring critical of parents who ideas where similar to us4them. It really might break your brain to think that actually a hell of a lot of parents think similar with out being a follower/supporter/lobbyist of Us4them.

Your anger towards parents wanting children in school is making you paranoid. Go back and read what you posted and how the conversation really went.

I’m not sure about the data echt but I have had some very good CPD from Dylan Wiliam who came to our school and he said that there had been studies (he quoted US ones if I recall) that did say there was a marked improvement in children of smaller class sizes but the high cost of implementing it would not be enough to convince education policy and that quality of teaching (at the time he suggested assessment for learning but that’s probably well out of date now) was the next best thing to focus on instead.
I think that may be what Kokeshi123 might be referring to but apologies if not.

Class size does matter:

Check out the Peter Blatchford article:

[[https://www.aeuvic.asn.au/sites/default/files/PV_11-2_Complete_Web.pdf]

@ChloeDecker

I’m not sure about the data echt but I have had some very good CPD from Dylan Wiliam who came to our school and he said that there had been studies (he quoted US ones if I recall) that did say there was a marked improvement in children of smaller class sizes but the high cost of implementing it would not be enough to convince education policy and that quality of teaching (at the time he suggested assessment for learning but that’s probably well out of date now) was the next best thing to focus on instead. I think that may be what Kokeshi123 might be referring to but apologies if not.

I take your point but what it boils down is governments can't be arsed ponying up the dough so teachers just have to try harder. Again.

I say this with some exasperation having sat through an outline of additional support predicated on Learning Styles. FFS.

The EEF toolkit suggests that it needs to drop below 20 to make a big difference.

However, it’s difficult to tease out the details - skilled feedback is the thing that speeds progress fastest (tell students immediately what they need to do to improve, then let them practice). Smaller classes help with this - but there are other ways. Giving teachers additional PPA time, for example. Reducing the content in lessons so a portion of each lesson is dedicated to live marking, perhaps whilst students work independently. There are ways...

Oh Jeez echt - Learning Styles, really? 😩

Lola you need to get out if this frame of mind where every one is in some conspiracy with Us4them
I don't.

Why are you so determined to argue things that haven't been said? Whilst your determinism is admirable, it makes very little sense.

And I’m not sure if you’ve forgotten but it was YOU who coined the phrase ‘Us4them types’. It was then I looked on their website. YOU were bring critical of parents who ideas where similar to us4them. It really might break your brain to think that actually a hell of a lot of parents think similar with out being a follower/supporter/lobbyist of Us4them.

Sorry, but how many times do posters have to say there is no anger against parents wanting children in school? That it is towards a particular group who have campaigned to get children in schools with no safety measures whatsoever. Is that what you want too then? No safety measures at all? Back to schools having to self isolate at a moments notice, even if you have been lucky enough to escape that? Don’t you want as many children to have the whole term’s experience in school as your children have?

Your anger towards parents wanting children in school is making you paranoid. Go back and read what you posted and how the conversation really went.

You really really need to read a bit more about the history of Us4Them and Us4ThemScotland.

Sorry, but how many times do posters have to say there is no anger against parents wanting children in school?
We could say this a dozen times and they would still come back making the same claims that objecting to the ideas of a lobby group equals hating on parents.

They've resorted to gaslighting now by calling me paranoid and suggesting I check how the conversation went. Considering they've been going on about my 'mask slipping' up thread, it appears like the intent is more to goad than to debate.

@LolaSmiles

Sorry, but how many times do posters have to say there is no anger against parents wanting children in school? We could say this a dozen times and they would still come back making the same claims that objecting to the ideas of a lobby group equals hating on parents.

They've resorted to gaslighting now by calling me paranoid and suggesting I check how the conversation went. Considering they've been going on about my 'mask slipping' up thread, it appears like the intent is more to goad than to debate.

I actually get tired of the U4T types on here

Lola YOU wrote that.

You are gaslighting. You equated parents that wanted their children back in school to lobby group that is spoken about in a derogatory way by some teachers.

And if you see it as goading that I’ve pointed out what your doing and saying then so be it. You probably need to be mindful how your starting to come off.

Deary

What do you think schools/the government can do to support students in the short/medium/long term?

I actually get tired of the U4T types on here

Lola YOU wrote that.

You are gaslighting. You equated parents that wanted their children back in school to lobby group that is spoken about in a derogatory way by some teachers

I am tired of U4T types on here.
That does is not equating parents wanting children back at schools with a lobby group.

Your persistent claims that criticising U4T people equals having an issue with parents wanting children in schools is derailing the OP's thread.

Your repeated personal comments directed at me are frankly bizarre.

Sheila There are Us4Them types on here. Us4them have been astroturfing Mumsnet since last summer, posting their messaging as if they are genuine posters, trying to make out that there is more support for their batshit opinions than there are.

They have been vile to anyone who disagrees and it has been pretty fucking tedious.

Learning Styles!? Still!? Oh you poor thing echt!

Thinking of free ideas to help our children once back in schools, might be to focus specifically on assemblies (and properly resourced ones) that focus on building up their self- efficacy/strengthening their self-belief that there is and can be hope. Maybe writing letters or encouraging songwriting, possibly during form time. Building on from the previous focus on getting them to think about how they felt during lockdown 1.
For Secondaries, maybe they could set up Mental Health Ambassadors who for now, could be available at the end of an email for other pupils if they want someone to talk to or just to connect with.
Just musing really and thinking about what might work well next half term.

Your persistent claims that criticising U4T people equals having an issue with parents wanting children in schools is derailing the OP's thread link to a single post where Ive said that. I’ve not said anything about you criticising U4T - what I have issue with is ‘U4T types’ which does mean parents that want their kids back and speak up about it.

And I’m replying back to you.

what I have issue with is ‘U4T types’ which does mean parents that want their kids back and speak up about it.
Yet again, it doesn't. Repeating the same thing countless times doesn't make it so.

Anyway, back to the thread topic.

Sheila repeatedly telling someone what they think and getting it wrong is starting to get embarrassing.