Other countries offering choice of vaccine

[doireallyneedaname]

I have relatives in Cyprus who are able to choose with vaccine they’d like - AZ or Pfizer.

They have been given an appointment for next week and told that they will be told beforehand which vaccine they are having, and if they want the other they can reschedule for that one.

I just read a news article which seems to confirm this.

Appreciate the population is minuscule compared to the UK and many other countries but given the recent news re AZ efficacy against the SA strain (which I believe will likely be the same against further mutations) - I can’t help but wish we’d order more Pfizer and give people the choice.

Again, if you think one is objectively better why would you let people choose?

@Baileysforchristmas

So why did WHO and EMA approve it if the trials were a shambles?

Desperate times and all that. I’m pretty sure they would have asked for my evidence and better trails before approving it in normal times.

@CrackOpenTheGin

But having the oxford jab won’t benefit be at all. I still won’t feel safe enough to pop to the shop or let my children go back to school. If I have the Pfizer jab I will.

Why?

@CrackOpenTheGin so you think EMA and WHO shouldn’t have approved it and are putting everyone at risk?

Also, some of these replies are just really odd. It would seem many believe that we are using AZ because it’s the “chosen” vaccine, the safest for “us” etc. It’s not. It’s being used because it’s the one we have a shit tonne of. If we had a shit tonne of Pfizer it’d be that. So no, it’s not being used with our best interests in mind. Sure, it does a great job with the current strain (not as good as the other vaccinations, still) - but not with the SA variant. It’s not hard to understand.

@CrackOpenTheGin. It would benefit you in the sense that you would be at much less risk of serious illness and death. It would also benefit you if everyone around you had had the AZ jab because the risk of them transmitting the virus to you will be much less.

What it is not going to do is remove 100% of the risk. Neither the AZ or Pfizer jab are 100% effective. So there's going to be a residual level of risk with either jab but greater with the AZ jab.

If the Pfizer jab will make you feel more comfortable about resuming everyday life, I really really hope you get it. But you'll be waiting a long time for a world which is totally free from Covid risk .

The OPs posts throughout this thread is literally her repeatedly saying "facts facts facts".

But CrackOpenTheGin you were the one advocating about lockdown being for the greater good on most threads. Do take the AZ vaccine when offered, atleast for the principles you were advocating for i.e the greater good of society as a whole

@doireallyneedaname. But it is being used with our best collective interests in mind right now. Even if individually Pfizer would be better, we all of us have a strong collective interest in vaccinating as many people as quickly as possible. And there is no benefit, collective or individual, in refusing a vaccination and risking waiting months for your preferred one.

I’m happy to take the residual risk of having the Pfizer, not the Oxford. And seeing as we are not living in North Korea, I believe it is my choice to make.

@doireallyneedaname

Also, this makes no sense. Unless there is a medical reason someone must have one or the other, the only difference is efficacy. It’s not “dangerous” to allow people to choose an approved vaccine (serious medical issues aside)

Yes it it because it makes the whole process far more difficult to manage and creates more admin. We all have a responsibility to turn up when asked and have what is available.

[quote MessAllOver]**@doireallyneedaname. But it is being used with our best collective interests in mind right now. Even if individually Pfizer would be better, we all of us have a strong collective interest in vaccinating as many people as quickly as possible. And there is no benefit, collective or individual, in refusing a vaccination and risking waiting months for your preferred one.[/quote]
It won’t be in the collective interest when the government announce in a few months that ‘whoops, the SA strain is now the dominant strain so those who had the Oxford are less protected’ And they will. Seeing as they’ve said it won’t happen it’s pretty much a certainly.

It doesn’t make the process more difficult. List the vaccine used on the online booking site. Takes an hour max to change the coding to allow that information to be shared. Other countries are doing it. Then let people book in wherever they want.

So it’s ok for South African to pause their vaccination programme in light of how poorly AZ performs against the SA variant, but when we find out this information we pretend as though it’s not happening, or at the very best “hope” that the SA variant won’t dominate unless we have a tweak by the end of 2021. Right.

I agree if all that is available is AZ, then we should have it. What I don’t agree with is that we haven’t put steps in place to obtain more doses of more effective vaccines immediately until ours is “tweaked.”

Money, I suppose.

@CrackOpenTheGin Exactly this. This is my worry. I can see it happening.

But in that case @CrackOpenTheGin, they'll just have to revaccinate with Pfizer those who have received AZ. In the meantime, the vaccinated will have had strong protection against the main variants circulating in the UK and transmission will have been reduced.

You are 100% unprotected at the moment against all variants. Surely anything is better than that?

@doireallyneedaname

So it’s ok for South African to pause their vaccination programme in light of how poorly AZ performs against the SA variant, but when we find out this information we pretend as though it’s not happening, or at the very best “hope” that the SA variant won’t dominate unless we have a tweak by the end of 2021. Right.

I agree if all that is available is AZ, then we should have it. What I don’t agree with is that we haven’t put steps in place to obtain more doses of more effective vaccines immediately until ours is “tweaked.”

Money, I suppose.

That’s been pretty much our attitude to spread in schools so I’m not surprised.

@MessAllOver We don’t even know if we can vaccinate someone again with a different vaccine within that sort of timeframe.

@MessAllOver

But in that case *@CrackOpenTheGin*, they'll just have to revaccinate with Pfizer those who have received AZ. In the meantime, the vaccinated will have had strong protection against the main variants circulating in the UK and transmission will have been reduced.

You are 100% unprotected at the moment against all variants. Surely anything is better than that?

Exactly! So excuse me if I don’t want to have to hang around at home never going out for 6 months while they get round to me again. I’d rather do my best to get the Pfizer one and if that means turning up to an appointment and refusing the oxford one a few times then so be it.

Well you can sort of choose. The vaccination centre I’m working at is currently (and has been for the last 3 weeks) only giving the AZ vaccine. This is because we have only been sent the AZ vaccine. The last Pfizer delivery was late January.

So you can decline the AZ vaccination & wait in the hope that we will get another Pfizer delivery soon and book in again for that.

But having a choice at the point of booking would slow down the rollout terribly. And anyone wanting Pfizer in our location wouldn’t even have an appointment or a likely date for one at the moment 🤷🏻‍♀️.

@CrackOpenTheGin. Well, if you're happy to wait? But you're potentially accepting a few more months of having no protection whatsoever. That seems a risky trade-off to me.

What I don’t agree with is that we haven’t put steps in place to obtain more doses of more effective vaccines immediately until ours is “tweaked.”

Because that isn't the way production schedules work and I should think some vaccines are heavily committed to other countries at present so they wouldn't be available for a long time (plus, we'd be creating problems in other countries if we out-bid them to the point where they weren't vaccinating at all.

Plus, there needs to be some relative agility after the initial mass vaccination to adapt to VOC and tweak for those.

[quote MessAllOver]@CrackOpenTheGin. Well, if you're happy to wait? But you're potentially accepting a few more months of having no protection whatsoever. That seems a risky trade-off to me.[/quote]
Not really as I’m going nowhere anyway.

@EmbarrassingAdmissions So at this stage why hasn’t the world collectively agreed that Pfizer/Moderna/whatever are clearly superior right now, so we should all help to manufacture only those and get everyone a dosage.

@doireallyneedaname. I completely disagree with you on the government taking no steps to obtain further vaccines. They have 400 million doses on order. We are vaccinating with Pfizer and AZ right now not because they're the best but because they're all we have.

And it's working. A month ago, you couldn't be sure you'd even be treated if you were hospitalised with Covid. It's still touch and go and hospitals remain overwhelmed but sticking needles in arms as quickly as possible rather than worrying about 10% less efficiency is working.

[quote doireallyneedaname]@EmbarrassingAdmissions So at this stage why hasn’t the world collectively agreed that Pfizer/Moderna/whatever are clearly superior right now, so we should all help to manufacture only those and get everyone a dosage.[/quote]
Because anything we British make can’t be dismissed like that