40% of Covid cases caught IN hospital

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I know it’s the daily mail but it’s all over

So whilst our lives have been fucked, they realistically needed to improve infection control in hospital.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9254495/Stopping-Covid-spreading-hospitals-substantial-reduction-wave-deaths.html

Not moving nurses between covid and non-covid wards would be a good start.

This article is presenting data from February to July 2020. Does anyone bother to read these articles or just jump on to comment?

PPE in hospitals is dire, it's totally ridiculous that healthcare staff working with Covid positive patients only have a surgical mask, visor, apron and gloves, they need FFP3! Of course it will spread.

www.bbc.com/news/health-55937864

So a Covid person comes in , touches and coughs over stuff. Bathrooms are are shared. Petson 2 then touches it. Therefore 2 ppl then have it then 4 etc etc.

Maybe if the govt paid for a decent contractor of PPE there would be less of this As we know BoJo prefers to subcontract to his mates.

Ps really dont trust the DM for FACTS.

@Trumplosttheelection

Oh ok! Brilliant idea! Let's control the infection! Fab!

Now if you can tell me how we do that when:

You can't tell if people have the bastard thing reliably without a pcr test which takes hours to run
Hospitals have very limited space for people to wait in isolation before going up to a ward
Hospitals have very limited isolation spaces on the wards
The infection can spread with short periods of contact and in the air
Staff can be positive without feeling ill
Any hospital has huge numbers coming in and out especially they try to keep appointments running

Any IPC experts please do volunteer to hit the wards with the teams. They've only been living a nightmare for the last year, they're basically clueless and no doubt you will soon show them how to defeat a highly infectious virus that we have only a limited understanding of even now,

Absolutely this!!!

This is what happens when the whole 'overwhelmed' NHS thing happens....
Underfunded and overwhelmed with everyone working in it trying their best and beyond.

My OH has weekly chemo - he says he has to ask the nurses to change their gloves and wipe down the blood pressure cuff and finger oxymeter between patients. Cancer patients are high risk - the staff shouldn't need to be asked to do such simple infection control.

I’m pregnant and have to go into hospital for regular scans and appointments. I have seen so many hospital staff (not in the ward or clinic but in the corridors and shop etc) and other patients or visitors with very lax mask wearing so I am not surprised. The windows are never open in the clinic or ward so no natural ventilation. I am also disappointed that things like automatic doors haven’t been fitted so everyone has to touch the same door handles and there are no sanitising points at these doors. I take disposable gloves with me for these doors but most people are touching them with their bare hands. Same goes for the car park ticket button. Parking charges have been suspended but everyone still has to press the same little button to get a ticket out of the machine. These are all things that could relatively easily be improved before we get on to issues around infection control of covid wards and so on!

Does that mean we can stop the plexiglass & masking nonsense in shops & supermarkets, then? And the frenzied panic by MN teachers about schools.

This is why I'm not going for tests that I need.

@Trumplosttheelection

Oh ok! Brilliant idea! Let's control the infection! Fab!

Now if you can tell me how we do that when:

You can't tell if people have the bastard thing reliably without a pcr test which takes hours to run
Hospitals have very limited space for people to wait in isolation before going up to a ward
Hospitals have very limited isolation spaces on the wards
The infection can spread with short periods of contact and in the air
Staff can be positive without feeling ill
Any hospital has huge numbers coming in and out especially they try to keep appointments running

Any IPC experts please do volunteer to hit the wards with the teams. They've only been living a nightmare for the last year, they're basically clueless and no doubt you will soon show them how to defeat a highly infectious virus that we have only a limited understanding of even now,

This! Exactly right.

Yeh let’s kick the NHS while their down. DD front line NHS, not caught it in 12 months of working with Covid patients.

DM heart op in December, negative when she went in, negative when she came out.

DD went into respite in December negative. Caught it in the care home, transferred to hospital and dies. He took it in, but who gave him it in the first place? Should the hospital have left him in the car park to die?

The hospitals are doing their best.

Sorry dear daughter and dear dad in that order

My daughter had a long hospital stay during the last lockdown. I was very surprised and disappointed to see:

1. how infrequently nurses washed their hands
2. shared equipment like blood pressure monitors and games room not cleaned at all
3. one shared shower room for the entire ward. Only cleaned once a day
4. windows closed, even when it was absolutely boiling
5. comments from the nurses including ‘oh we don’t do social distancing here’ and ‘well we all think the ward was full of covid in Dec 19 so we’re probably ok

What a surprise. An airborne disease spreads fast in a large badly ventilated building. Like a hospital. Or a hotel, say. It's the same in my country. Most cases car homes, hospitals and intrafamilial (starting from care homes and hospitals!).

Crikey some of these hospital practices need revisiting. It sounds like staff are exhausted and sadly have become complacent.

Ps really dont trust the DM for FACTS.
This, but how else would people be able to get on with advocating the NHS is privatised and that taking measures to reduce community transmission is nothing more than scared sheeple in a frenzied panic?

The lack of logic is bizarre: covid spreads when you have lots of households mixing, especially indoors (like a hospital), therefore measures that reduce household mixing in the community must be bollocks and anyone who expresses concern when people are mixing must be hysterical.

That's a good number. On a normal day you have :
Nurses, doctors, consultants, surgeons, pharmacy staff, physio's, OT therapists, catering staff, waste removal staff, cleaning staff, maintenance staff, ward admin staff, porters, patients going for a fag and their visitors all coming in and out of the ward.

We are also seeing patients who have been told to isolate for 10 days before an op turn up to a pre op and pipe up that they have been very good and isolated and hubby has been good for taking the kids to school before going to work. They look a bit peed off when you have to tell them that isn't isolating and the op is now canceled.

So all in all the 40% figure is pretty good IMO considering the working conditions in actually running a ward.

@Trumplosttheelection

Oh ok! Brilliant idea! Let's control the infection! Fab!

Now if you can tell me how we do that when:

You can't tell if people have the bastard thing reliably without a pcr test which takes hours to run
Hospitals have very limited space for people to wait in isolation before going up to a ward
Hospitals have very limited isolation spaces on the wards
The infection can spread with short periods of contact and in the air
Staff can be positive without feeling ill
Any hospital has huge numbers coming in and out especially they try to keep appointments running

Any IPC experts please do volunteer to hit the wards with the teams. They've only been living a nightmare for the last year, they're basically clueless and no doubt you will soon show them how to defeat a highly infectious virus that we have only a limited understanding of even now,

Absolutely this!

@Torvean

So a Covid person comes in , touches and coughs over stuff. Bathrooms are are shared. Petson 2 then touches it. Therefore 2 ppl then have it then 4 etc etc.

Maybe if the govt paid for a decent contractor of PPE there would be less of this As we know BoJo prefers to subcontract to his mates.

Ps really dont trust the DM for FACTS.

True but I've been ill on a (non covid) hospital ward for weeks now. When I go to the toilet I wash my hands - why would someone go to a ward toilet (or any toilet ?!) without washing their hands I mean that's gross?

I open the toilet door, give my hands a wash with soap and water (because I've touched the door which someone else would have touched)... Go to the loo, wash my hands again at the sink, dry my hands and then use the paper towel I'm holding to open the door (pop it in the bin as I leave)...use hand gel outside the door and then hand gel outside my room (which the staff use as well) and that's that.

I mean yes I could still catch something despite that I'm sure but it's not like I'm being forced to go to the toilet and not wash my hands. I feel I'm taking reasonable precautions and it's not exactly a hardship to wash / gel a couple extra times.

The showers are cleaned between use and you can see on the door the time they've been cleaned so when I am able to get up and shower they're spotless.

Yes people catch covid on wards I don't dispute that for a second - why wouldn't they , especially considering it's a largely asymptomatic illness.... But I don't think the impression that If you are in hospital you absolutely WILL catch covid is fair.
If 40% is the statistic of how many cases are caught in hospital then that's still over half of cases that aren't.

I've been at the teacher bashing end of things and so I just feel like there's some nhs bashing going on here that isn't fair. As is always the way you will always get people speaking out when they see something isn't right - so... Someone is in hospital and they see a nurse go between rooms and not washing their hands - scandal, all over the DM or MN...
People don't tend to write things as much when everything is fine (hence why I have done) so those stories of where things are being done well and correctly get forgotten, when actually there will be huge amounts of nhs wards and staff who are following protocol and stuff goes right.

Is that statistic 40% of all cases are caught in hospital or 40% of hospital patients with covid actually caught it whilst already in?

This does not surprised me at all.

I am in the clinically extremely vulnerable group. In September I ended up in A and E with an asthma flare and issues relating to my other conditions (lupus, Addison’s etc). I spent 6 hours on a very crowded A and E ward sitting next to lots of other people. Not a single thing about separate areas etc and given that I presented as coughing / chest difficulties I could easily have had Covid myself (although I suspected it was asthma).

I was eventually moved to a ward - 8 beds- and was only then swabbed and tested for Covid. I then had to wait 24 hours for those results. Whilst sharing the ward. Which I assume was the same for everyone else. If my result had come back positive I would have already potentially infected the whole ward - some of them were elderly women. (It was negative).

The hospital (Norfolk and Norwich) have plenty of signs up saying Green / Yellow etc zones but my own experience is that that doesn’t mean a thing if you enter via A and E.

I have since been back for outpatient appointments and these did feel very safe and separated - hardly anyone else there, lots of cleaning etc etc but the emergency department was a nightmare. Probably just overworked and over stressed I would imagine.

Shouldn’t we be raging against the underfunding which has allowed this to happen - overcrowded wards, too few staff so they have to move between covid and non-covid wards, no proper PPE, outsourced cleaning which leaves issues like a dr friend told me of where no one had shown the cleaners on the covid wards how to use PPE...?

I’ve spent a bit of time in outpatients waiting rooms and spent 7 hours on a day surgery ward.

If I could make one small change it would be that mask wearing be enforced in hospitals wherever possible. I’m ok with assuming the people not wearing masks have a proper reason to be exempt but the number of people with their mask in their hand, hanging off from one ear, or over their face but not their nose is staggering. About 30% of people just don’t give a shit that them not wearing the mask they have with them puts other people at risk.

100% of the many staff I’ve seen over the past few weeks have been wearing masks properly. It must drive them mad that patients aren’t doing the same.

Generally on the ward and in treatment rooms I’ve felt fairly safe Covid wise as I’ve been kept very distanced from other patients.

But yesterday I attended a physio appointment where 8 physios were treating 8 patients all in one room and I was sitting about 1m from the neighbouring patient, separated only by a curtain with gaps all around it. This is utter madness during a pandemic.

a friend wias told that the reason they had covid on their ward is staff had bought it in, from the supermarket

who knows,
what a vigilante situation
a nasty blame game.

i get emails every day advertising for house keeping staff in hospitals, they are desperate for staff

why do you think so many appointments are virtual now? do you think it is a game they decided just for fun
it is to limit the transmission

@Trumplosttheelection

Oh ok! Brilliant idea! Let's control the infection! Fab!

Now if you can tell me how we do that when:

You can't tell if people have the bastard thing reliably without a pcr test which takes hours to run
Hospitals have very limited space for people to wait in isolation before going up to a ward
Hospitals have very limited isolation spaces on the wards
The infection can spread with short periods of contact and in the air
Staff can be positive without feeling ill
Any hospital has huge numbers coming in and out especially they try to keep appointments running

Any IPC experts please do volunteer to hit the wards with the teams. They've only been living a nightmare for the last year, they're basically clueless and no doubt you will soon show them how to defeat a highly infectious virus that we have only a limited understanding of even now,

💯