After lockdown...the sh*t will hit the fan

[Desperado40]

My biggest fear is not covid or if life will be ever back to normal. I know this will pass and we will be able to socialise, travel etc. at some point.
What’s keeping me awake at night, literally, is the state of affairs when we are out of the immediate covid crisis. There will be high unemployment, lots of businesses will go bust after support tap is off, mental health and general health crisis (think of the huge backlog of surgeries and treatments postponed!). But most of all, I ma fearingthe day when the government starts clawing billions spent back from us. I feel that our quality of life will be much worse (as a nation) than we realise. There is also brexit to add to it all. Has anyone got any positive views on this to share (and make me feel better?). Need some optimism desperately.

@Dramalady52 I bet the government are thinking about "less care needed, with so many elderly dead": but of course they are not going to say anything about it at all, and lose their "grey vote". With my cynical head on, I can't help wondering if that's one reason why Boris made such a show of grovelling about the dead, to deflect later accusations of "killing off" the elderly. Perhaps the fictional Adrian Mole had a hand in the thinking there as well, who wishes in "The Cappuccino Years" that everyone over a certain age would die to give the young a break.

Also, didn't a certain royal, notorious for his "gaffes", say some years ago that he wished to be reincarnated as a deadly virus, to do something about overpopulation?

@Hollyhead

think about how much fuel duty income has collapsed, and the business rates holiday for retail, all the profits not taxed from aviation/travel/hospitality.

It'll be OK, even now ,with passenger numbers through the floor and with those lucky enough to still hold down a job in the aviation industry hoping for some signs of improvement Heathrow Airport is trying to squeeze even more profit out of those struggling to travel....

"The airport with the highest passenger taxes in the world has just added yet another tax."....."Heathrow Airport adds £8.90 “exceptional regulatory charge”

onemileatatime.com/heathrow-airport-coronavirus-tax/

@LastTrainEast

Given that school children and young people are at a negligible risk of dying from Covid yet are the ones sacrificing their education and future prospects in order to protect the lives of the older generation then maybe it might be a good idea if this same older generation started showing a little more respect or even a simple thank you to school children and young people.

Otherwise a real consequence in a post Covid world will be a very bitter divide between young and old generations.

[quote 1dayatatime]@LastTrainEast

Given that school children and young people are at a negligible risk of dying from Covid yet are the ones sacrificing their education and future prospects in order to protect the lives of the older generation then maybe it might be a good idea if this same older generation started showing a little more respect or even a simple thank you to school children and young people.

Otherwise a real consequence in a post Covid world will be a very bitter divide between young and old generations.[/quote]
Suicides among under 21s and in particular under 18s has reduced. Reduced bullying due to not going to school, better supervision both at home and school, has resulted in kids either not needing to or not finding the opportunity to commit suicide as much as pre-Lockdown.

When furlough ends and many more end up on UC and attending food banks i think the reaction will be "hang on i sacrificed my job home life etc and this is the thanks i get" Then the anger will be a lot more visible.

All these people saying there will be a roaring twenties, you do realise that the only people who will benefit from that are the wealthy or those lucky enough to have kept their jobs?
My DP has saved loads and been able to wfh the whole time. I on the other have been made redundant. As had my daughter and several other relatives. We don't have the money to spend and can't see any of us finding amazing jobs anytime soon.

@GrumpyHoonMain

"Suicides among under 21s and in particular under 18s has reduced. Reduced bullying due to not going to school, better supervision both at home and school, has resulted in kids either not needing to or not finding the opportunity to commit suicide as much as pre-Lockdown."

Given that the Office of National Statistics has not yet published the suicide figures for 2020 I am most intrigued as to where you got the data from to make your assumption.

Equally given that most bullying children suffer is online then regarding bullying I also don't see how it makes much difference if they are in or out of school.

Lastly the causes of suicide amongst young people is more complex than just bullying and is more related to a feeling of failure and an inability to cope something the restrictions have certainly given them.

Just read through the whole thread and the person who wrote that the middle class will all be showing off their photos on Facebook while the people who have lost their jobs and savings will be at home watching them. That is so true.
There's been a divide throughout all of this and it will only continue afterwards too. The working class and low earners in particular have really been screwed over. Some have had it very good through coronavirus and will continue to when it ends. We are certainly not all in it together that's for sure.

@Fucket

Defenbaker It’s a sad state of affairs when local youths desperate for work all signed up to work for our local farms to be told, no because they had to pay to live on site. Why should they? When they could go home to their families every night.

So long as the minimum wage exists our young employed are cut out of a labour market which rightly or wrongly favours cheap migrant Labour, where living in a crappy caravan with 5 or more colleagues still brings enough money in to send home and seem like a fortune.

@Fucket Yes, that seems wrong on so many levels. The system clearly needs reforming.

@LastTrainEast

God you’re someone who thinks that people are sick of lockdown because they “want to go to the pub” aren’t you.

Have you got kids? If your kids have only been impacted insofar as they’re “sitting at home posting on social media” they’re very very lucky. And probably you are too.

In which case, finding some empathy for those less fortunate, to model to your children, would be a good idea.

I think you're worrying unnecessarily about things out of your control that you have no idea will or will not happen.

Best advice for you is to take one day at a time and go with the flow. At the moment your mind is running away with you.

@tawnytowel

"So not only have the younger generations suffered disproportionately from measures necessary to protect those most at risk of Covid... you now want them to go and pick your strawberries for you for a few pence a punnet because it’s FUN and it keeps the IMMIGRANTS out?"

@tawnytowel No, that's not what I said, you have twisted my words out of context. I mentioned that I had enjoyed picking strawberries, when I was a teenager, and at the time I was paid a few pence a punnet. That was years ago, so I'm sure the rate is much higher now. You are clearly so angry about Brexit that you seek to vent your anger on anyone who dares to suggest that there could be any sort of plus side to it.

Ref. money saved on EU contributions - you may be right that so far Brexit has cost the UK more than it has saved. However, I think in a few years we will start to reap net savings. I am not delusional, nor anti immigration, I just see things differently to you. Also, young people have their lives ahead of them to travel and learn about other cultures, it's not the end of the world if they don't get to have a gap year travelling the world.

[quote AnaisNun]@LastTrainEast

God you’re someone who thinks that people are sick of lockdown because they “want to go to the pub” aren’t you.

Have you got kids? If your kids have only been impacted insofar as they’re “sitting at home posting on social media” they’re very very lucky. And probably you are too.

In which case, finding some empathy for those less fortunate, to model to your children, would be a good idea.[/quote]
Theres no use with Last Train, Anais.

She thinks we're all pining for primark and a cold pint.

I've watched my son go from a bubbly boy to angry and frustrated as hes been on his own for a year now. I've watched one of my best friends bawling her eyes out cos she got made redundant after 13 years.

People are quite accepting of people dying from alzheimers, flu, heart disease, obesity, alcohol and and smoking related illnesses but No one can die of Covid. That's more special.

@tawnytowel

I fully expect the state pension age to be raised to 75 for anyone born after about 1966

That won’t happen. The state pension age is linked to life expectancy and is done so in order to be politically and economically sustainable. The reason it went up is because it had been set at the same rate for so long that people were spending proportionately more time in retirement (and less time making contributions) than the system was designed to support (particularly women). Add onto that the boom in post war births which was followed by a drop in the birth rate, and we end up with a lower tax base from which to support growing liabilities (driven by increased size of cohort living who are all living longer).

The initiative for people to lead healthier lives for longer (+5 years healthy life expectancy) has been a flop, and you wouldn’t be able to increase state pension age without increasing the length of time that people are able to work (otherwise they all transfer onto UC / disability benefits which whilst much lower than those after 65, are still expensive). That’s why you’re seeing the “prevention” initiatives in recent healthcare white paper. It’s the best way to lower healthcare costs AND keep people working until closer to retirement age. At the moment the average person leaves the workforce around 3 years before they are able to claim their state pension, usually for health reasons.

State pension age has only risen from 65 to 67, so not really that much at all given life expectancy increases. Obviously the increase has been more for women, because that is also equalising state pension age with men, but, again, only 2 years of the 7 year increase for women is due to the general increase in state pension age, 5 years was for equalisation.

@Fucket @Defenbaker Hate to say i told you so but i and many others have said on threads in the past why social housing tenants cant take those jobs. Living on site would mean losing their social housing tenancy. And given how many have shown their stasi like qualities during this pandemic i have no doubt in my mind that someone would report to the HA that the property wasnt being lived in.

People are quite accepting of people dying from alzheimers, flu, heart disease, obesity, alcohol and and smoking related illnesses but No one can die of Covid. That's more special.

Out of all those, only Flu is infectious. Most of the others are lifestyle related and aren't contagious. People have their own control (or lack of it) re lifestyle related illnesses. Completely different to infectious diseases where you're very limited as to how you can control it when it's others around you who are likely to pass it to you.

lol at the mental gymnastics of wanting the state pension raised so older people have to work longer which has already proved a problem in this pandemic as they are a higher risk group who have still had to go into their workplace and use public transport.

[quote MercyBooth]**@Fucket* @Defenbaker* Hate to say i told you so but i and many others have said on threads in the past why social housing tenants cant take those jobs. Living on site would mean losing their social housing tenancy. And given how many have shown their stasi like qualities during this pandemic i have no doubt in my mind that someone would report to the HA that the property wasnt being lived in.[/quote]
@MercyBooth I didn't know that, it's awful. I was thinking more about young adults who still live with their parents, rather than older adults who have rent/mortgage to pay. I would like the UK (and other countries) to start producing a lot more of its own food... both for food security and to reduce our carbon footprint. It's something I feel quite passionate about, but I'm aware that there's a lot physical hard labour involved in picking fruit etc, so it's better suited to young workers. Anyway, the work is seasonal, so won't pay bills in winter.

I agree with the PP who said that many people have plans that are on hold for now, but they will start spending money when lockdown is lifted. Vaccine rollout seems to be going well, and infection numbers are falling, so hopefully things will improve by midsummer. I think we have to hang on to hope, or things will be even more difficult for us.

The job situation is dire. Over 500 people applied for a job as an admin officer for a job I’m recruiting for and I had to sift the applications. This is a job paying 20k and most of the people applying were over qualified.

My friend who is an NHS admin manager had the same thing when she advertised for a band 2 clerical job paying 18k. Hundreds of people applying for each badly paid job.

There will be a bloodbath when furlough ends.

@GrumpyHoonMain suicides have not reduced mental health has gone up 250%
10 million people 1.5 million under 18!

@Donoteatthekittens

The job situation is dire. Over 500 people applied for a job as an admin officer for a job I’m recruiting for and I had to sift the applications. This is a job paying 20k and most of the people applying were over qualified.

My friend who is an NHS admin manager had the same thing when she advertised for a band 2 clerical job paying 18k. Hundreds of people applying for each badly paid job.

There will be a bloodbath when furlough ends.

There are also all the self employed who've been excluded from Covid support schemes (3 million) who'll be entering the job market just desperate for any work to pay their bills. They'll probably never go back to being self employed, thus reducing the number of jobs available.

The lockdown will result in many more lives lost and destroyed than Covid.

These are the exact thoughts that gave me panic attacks during lockdown number 1.

I also disagree re spending. I think I'll be saving as much as I can for if we have another scenario such as this.

6m on UC. Just let that sink in because that is a means-tested benefit; there will be probably a third more who don't claim it, yet. 6m on furlough. But these lockdowns just have to continue.