SAGE say lockdown cycles could last several years

[IesuMariJoseff]

I can't believe I suddenly live in a world in which our human rights have become conditional based on hidden calculations around hospital capacity.

The first lockdown, I understood. The second, ok. Even now, I'll bare it. It's hard but the vaccines are being rolled out, it felt like the last leg.

Years? Fucking years?

Frankly all the governments are fighting a losing battle. Covid is here to stay and all the posturing about zero covid has proven false. And I'm afraid that too much policy making has been driven by the fact that no one had the balls to stand up at the start and say to voters - people will die, no matter what we do. We'll try and limit the impact but there's no good choices here.

People die from all sorts of diseases and I expect covid will just become one of the seasonal bugs that we have to accept, together with the fact that if you are vulnerable for whatever reason it may be fatal (along with all flu, colds, hospital acquired infection or whatever).

@IesuMariJoseff

If you google "Sage lockdown cycles last years" there's multiple places reporting it. I'm not saying it's definitely true. I pray it's not.

Surely if they dragged this out for years people would just stop listening? Compliance is already going down, you cannot expect us to sacrifice years of our lives.

My infant has only met his family members a handful of times. He has no relationships with anyone other than me and his father. This isn't acceptable for years and I won't do it. After this lockdown I am seeing my family as normal. I'm not doing it again. Life is too short to not see your family. I refuse

Yes it's a nightmare. But I actually agree with it and don't want it myself. I guess ifcyou don't care about getting it you see it more a control thing. Doesn't mean it'll be as bad as before. It'll come in cycles.

@MaxNormal

Oh ffs, so raging I got that back to front. Shit in my own hands and clap. But yeah, anything really would be better than the dreary hell that is a UK holiday.

Gosh it's so not dreary. Although I certainly won't be joining the hoardes in Cornwall.

Not very secret tip - there is a lot more to holidaying in the UK than Cornwall.

People who say they should just learn to live with it. We are. This is how we do it.

Are you saying if you test positive you're not allowed in hospital? Is that it? Or do we keep trying to treat anyone with it? If the latter, how is there enough space for covid and every other condition?

There's definitely a great dystopian novel genre waiting to be born in endless plague life.
Except we might be living it. That experience seems to destroy good fiction.
Covid passports & all that may still beckon...
Oh well.

hordes

Why not go the whole hog, don't bother investing in the nhs just scrap it altogether

That's not what coming to terms with our mortality means, midgedude
Even with the most perfect of care people still die when their bodies can no longer support an illness or injury - only we've reached a stage where that's just not acceptable to those who believe everyone's got to be cured of everything all the time

And while nobody actively wants anyone to lose their life, this just isn't sustainable

If it’s any reassurance, nothing about a Boris Johnson makes me think he acts with an abundance of caution. He’ll be lifting restrictions at the earliest possible opportunity.

People who say they should just learn to live with it. We are. This is how we do it

Only up to a point so far, in that most of us still hope or believe the vaccines will prove effective enough

The "learning to live wth it" may well come into sharper focus if they don't

I’m guessing, given the use of YEARS, this is from some shitty, click baity tabloid “source”

I expect SAGE have said something far more measured.

You can't say "accept mortality " without also meaning no nhs palliative care because that ties up resources just as much )

And you can't say allow mortality from covid but not cancer , that's just arbitrary and leaves open the question why should I pay for your future cancer care

Both types of care cost everyone who is rich enough to pay taxes .

@IcedPurple

Another thread getting panicky about a headline discussing hypothetical scenarios? Could we see direct quotations from the SAGE members themselves, not a 'news'paper's click baity interpretation of them?

This. Sick of all the clickbait headlines in the papers.

@midgedude

"Come to terms with our own mortality "

Why not go the whole hog, don't bother investing in the nhs just scrap it altogether. Reduced taxes will help the economy surely ? Health only for the rich.

Of course now your going to get lots of people trying to justify why ‘people need to come to terms with their own mortality’ and ‘everybody has to die sometime’ only seems to apply to people with Covid.

The key word is could. We are learning about this all the time

Let’s learn lessons from before, let’s not come out of this lockdown to fast and hopefully we won’t have to have more

We have developed an unhealthy fear of death though. Death is one of the only certainties in life and we need to accept that there is merit in a dignified death and be thankful for a life well lived.

That does not mean that we do not treat people and just let them die but it is ridiculous that we treat death at 90plus as a tragedy to be avoided. Of course it is a tragedy for the family and their loved ones but people die. Until the 1950s people lived with the awful possibility of polio, TB , cholera, typhoid etc . It is wonderful that we can now control and treat these diseases but people did live rich and fulfilling lives before then and that is partly because they had an acceptance of their own mortality.

Utterly depressing. What is the point. ‘Living’ like this for years is not living.

Sage are so depressing. They don't have any solutions aside from lockdowns do they? Where is the pressure on the government and greedy fact cat councils and property developers to STOP overcrowding our towns and cities.

People in the UK are living in tiny cramped flats and shoebox houses and paying quite a lot of money for it too. WHY are we not looking at our infrastructure and building some new towns and villages? Is it any wonder Sweden have done so well when they aren't all living on top of each other? Why does no one look at this?

I’m sure most Mumsnetters would be happy to stay at home forever. Until the money runs out...

The experts on SAGE are not the only experts in the world. They can't even agree with each other, never mind all the other experts around. So I'd take a ton of salt with a lot of what they are quoted as saying.

TBH I think that some of these experts are enjoying their time in the limelight just a little too much. After all, when was the last time anyone hung on the words of scientists etc. Before the pandemic they were all perhaps recognisable in their field by other experts, but most people had never heard of them and had no interest in them. They certainly weren't wooed by the media for comments on a daily basis. And it won't be long before they all fade into obscurity again. I think some of them will do or say anything to stay in the limelight.

@IesuMariJoseff Life is too short to not see your family. I refuse well others lives actually will be short if you act in such an abhorrent way.

@IesuMariJoseff

I can't believe I suddenly live in a world in which our human rights have become conditional based on hidden calculations around hospital capacity.

The first lockdown, I understood. The second, ok. Even now, I'll bare it. It's hard but the vaccines are being rolled out, it felt like the last leg.

Years? Fucking years?

I totally and utterly agree OP. Democracy is gone

Abhorent to see your family? Behave

@Peaseblossom22

We have developed an unhealthy fear of death though. Death is one of the only certainties in life and we need to accept that there is merit in a dignified death and be thankful for a life well lived.

That does not mean that we do not treat people and just let them die but it is ridiculous that we treat death at 90plus as a tragedy to be avoided. Of course it is a tragedy for the family and their loved ones but people die. Until the 1950s people lived with the awful possibility of polio, TB , cholera, typhoid etc . It is wonderful that we can now control and treat these diseases but people did live rich and fulfilling lives before then and that is partly because they had an acceptance of their own mortality.

'Be thankful for a life well lived' thats fine if you are elderly and have lived your life but im pretty sure the lives of most young CEV people and children have yet to even begin. My DC will live a normal life as long as anyone else's unless they contract covid and end up with life long disability or worse. Its not just 90+ year olds affected by covid !

IF they mean lockdowns are in a few days or so, not too bad. But our experience of 'lockdown' seems to be...hpeful starts, few weeks..etc...then dragging on for months and months.

But honestly, at this stage it kind of feels like endless..pessimism. We are doing great with the vaccine thing, people are starting to feel a bit positive again, things are looking up...then more doom and gloom. It might not come across that way to others, but it really does to me now and its starting to get to me massively tbh.

for a few days..not in a few days *