Is anyone actually going to follow the rules from spring?

[Cloudsurfing]

It will have been a year since being allowed to properly see friends and family. Even in summer last year you still had to social distance so seeing family was difficult, and some areas had tighter restrictions throughout. Everyone I know is going to see family and friends from spring, regardless of what restrictions there are. I am too. The government do know that most people won’t stick to it from then, right?

Is anyone on here actually going to not see family at that point? I know Mumsnet seems to be full of people who are happy to isolate for years if need be, but are you actually going to?

Anyone who thinks it’s fine to start bending the rules watch good morning Britain from this morning and the interviews from Whiston hospital

@Cloudsurfing
Everyone generally thinks they are healthy and low risk. People generally discover completely out of the blue that they are not.

There is more chance of me dying from many day to day activities than this

Well quite, and if that activity leads to eg an RTA, and all ICUs are full, then your chances of dying have just increased.

Or perhaps you might have find a lump, or have an adverse smear, or have some nob-specific symptoms that mean cancer, and you a) have to shield because it's not safe enough to pause and b) you are on a modified treatment regime

Absence, delay or modification to treatment is costing lives.

That is why we have to stop health providers being overwhelmed (specifically not said NHS as this is not unique to UK by any stretch), and need to keep going with anti-transmission measure until rates have fallen low enough and long enough for hospitals to empty out

Everyone generally thinks they are healthy and low risk. People generally discover completely out of the blue that they are not.

A small percentage may. However the data is very clear about age related risk, perhaps take a look at it.

It's a big birthday of mine soon and my parents are vaccinated. I'm absolutely having them over for the day.

Here, here @scaevola

Everyone generally thinks they are healthy and low risk. People generally discover completely out of the blue that they are not.

Because the vast majority of people are and will not die from this illness. What don't people understand with this? The data proves it time and time again.

People are in denial and just don't want to admit the truth - the truth is that many of the country have fucked up a whole year of their lives for a small minority. And that's ok, I'm not complaining I am happy to protect others in society for a year.

Am I going to fuck up another year or two, no - I'm not. I've done enough.

I know the virus has a tiny chance of killing me and most people. Facts.

I'm not complaining.

But you are though. I mean, fine, complain away. It's a shit situation. But it's caused by a virus and a terrible government. Not because some people have the audacity to be old or disabled.

@tootsytoo do you not understand that people have accidents/get other illnesses though? And if we let everyone crack on, this virus grows exponentially and hospitals won't cope? Which then means cancer opps etc get cancelled?

[quote Lemonsyellow]@Cloudsurfing
Everyone generally thinks they are healthy and low risk. People generally discover completely out of the blue that they are not.[/quote]
I would know if I was CEV. I may have an underlying condition I don’t know about making me CV of course. But look at the risk calculators. Even if I was to have a condition That increased my risk by times 3 (diabetes for example), the risk for my age is still incredibly low. Its a risk I’m willing to take. I’d be at higher risk from getting in my car, crossing the road, many other daily life things.

@JackieWeaver4PM yes I guess I am complaining! I never said it was anyone's fault? I didn't blame the elderly or the vulnerable. But we cannot hold life for a small monitory it's not how life works. If it was we wouldn't ever leave our homes out of fear of someone dying?

@RC000 cancer ops are already being cancelled!

NHS is not functioning as it it is so yes I would be able to accept nhs would be overwhelmed. Controversial but that's my opinion.

I don't like the disregard to the elderly and vulnerable comments. It must be horrific for those people to hear that their lives are less important than someones need to go to their mates house.

And I think the argument about if this was to protect children would this be different is valid. Someone with no kids and who is very close to their parents would likely prioritise their parents health over childrens as it "doesn't affect them". Same logic as if you had the choice of your child getting seriously Ill or a choice or 5 children you never and will never meet getting Ill, most people would choose the other children, as the latter wouldn't directly affect them.

Basically I dont think its fair for us to make any judgements on who's lives are more or less important to protect. People are going to make decisions that are in line with their values, priorities and wants which is why individual risk assessments will not work and we instead have to follow scientific non bias advice.

Also - I am no way one that "throths" over lock down. I do think people who are suffering with their mental health should have have support from others, or new parents struggling with a new born / toddler, special needs child etc should be able to have some level of family support, I just don't think being fed up with it or being bored is a valid reason to potentially contribute to the spread of a virus.

I also do strongly believe that come summer we will legally be allowed to mix, and if you choose a cut off date when you'll start to mix on your own terms, that's probably just pushing the official date for people to be allowed to mix back for everyone else.

It's a big birthday of mine soon and my parents are vaccinated. I'm absolutely having them over for the day.

Good luck to you.

I think the point is though that a lot of people aren't disregarding the elderly and vulnerable. A lot of us were fine with the idea of lockdown until they were vaccinated (so until early Spring).
What's really making me worry is that it doesn't now seem as if it will stop then. Hopefully it will, but the feeling I'm getting is that the goalposts are shifting.
I think at some point soon we will have to get on with life as this situation is absolutely awful for many.
I'm not being selfish- the elderly and vulnerable will be protected. The rest of us are at low risk (appreciate that's not no risk- but there has always been a level of risk and we have to live with that).
I look at DS (19) in his bedroom when he should be at uni and I could cry.
A short lockdown to protect the elderly and vulnerable- yes.
A lockdown with no end in sight, and for what purpose- no.

If we try to ‘crack on’ too soon we could undo all our hard work

The difficulty here is that this is what folk were told last year, and with things getting no better there comes a time where the sacrifices just aren't worth it any more.
Yes, many will wait through spring to see if the jabs are effective, but there's little point if that turns into "we need a tweak, just hang on until such-and-such" and then whatever the next delay is, because by then there'll almost certainly be another mutation ... and another ... and another

For so many the key word is balance, and there really isn't enough

@Mydogdoesntlisten

I agree with you and feel exactly the same about my teenage DCs.

I also completely agree about the goal posts changing and am hoping it’s just until groups 0-9 are vaccinated?

Cqn someone tell me what they're waiting for? After all the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated (+3 weeks) what needs to happen before you think restrictions should ease?

We need to wait until Group 9 (all over 50s) have been vaccinated. That accounts for 99% of deaths and the majority of hospital admissions. Then we can start to relax restrictions. I have a new grandchild who I can't see freely, our business has been put on hold, but it's stupid to go back to 'normal' now when we have vaccines within reach of everyone.

“Cqn someone tell me what they're waiting for? After all the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated (+3 weeks) what needs to happen before you think restrictions should ease?”

Well obviously it’s not our decision but I do wish we were told what we are waiting for.

We haven’t got much choice but to wait though have we as nothing is back open so there’s nothing to do!

If you mean meeting family, I think based on the Christmas effect on admissions and deaths which was pretty much all from indoor mixing, I’d still want to be very cautious indoors but would be happier outdoors. But that’s my own view.

But once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated (plus quite a few others) why do you think it would be risky to mix indoors (or rather that the benefits still wouldn't outweigh the hugely reduced risks)

@StealthPolarBear

But once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated (plus quite a few others) why do you think it would be risky to mix indoors (or rather that the benefits still wouldn't outweigh the hugely reduced risks)

I think the risk is that if the virus runs through the remaining unvaccinated population theres a possibility of it mutating to the point the vaccine isnt effective and we are back to square 1. Therefore more than just the vulnerable and elderly need vaccinated before it's safe for people to start mixing again. I think enough of the population will be vaccinated by summer to reduce transmission enough hopefully

@Mreggsworth

I don't like the disregard to the elderly and vulnerable comments. It must be horrific for those people to hear that their lives are less important than someones need to go to their mates house.

And I think the argument about if this was to protect children would this be different is valid. Someone with no kids and who is very close to their parents would likely prioritise their parents health over childrens as it "doesn't affect them". Same logic as if you had the choice of your child getting seriously Ill or a choice or 5 children you never and will never meet getting Ill, most people would choose the other children, as the latter wouldn't directly affect them.

Basically I dont think its fair for us to make any judgements on who's lives are more or less important to protect. People are going to make decisions that are in line with their values, priorities and wants which is why individual risk assessments will not work and we instead have to follow scientific non bias advice.

Also - I am no way one that "throths" over lock down. I do think people who are suffering with their mental health should have have support from others, or new parents struggling with a new born / toddler, special needs child etc should be able to have some level of family support, I just don't think being fed up with it or being bored is a valid reason to potentially contribute to the spread of a virus.

I also do strongly believe that come summer we will legally be allowed to mix, and if you choose a cut off date when you'll start to mix on your own terms, that's probably just pushing the official date for people to be allowed to mix back for everyone else.

Very true. If the virus happens to mutate and starts to affect them people themselves or their children then they will be up in arms about people not doing enough to protect them whenever they've spent a year giving off about being so over this that they aren't doing it anymore because their risk is low and its only the 'old or vunerable' will get sick so why should it impact their lives. It is also not beyond the realms of possibilty that we do end up with a mutation that impacts on a wider section of society if we allow it to spread out of control.

As for undoing hard work , virus mutating...always gonna happen I'm afraid . Viruses hang around for millions of years and survive by mutating.

No matter how much " hard work " we put in , it's not going away . So what is the plan ? Lockdown forever. Yeah that sounds good

Absolutely not.

The scientists seem to say the risks of the virus mutating so vaccines are ineffective is small. We need to take sensible precautions and then live our lives, otherwise we may as well build bunkers and plan to die in them.