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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

How much longer are we meant to do this?

621 replies

Creamteaincornwall · 07/02/2021 22:37

I have so many friends who are at the end of their tether. Some suicidal, many almost.
I attend a zoom support group for my mental health and emotional well being as I have BPD and ASD. The last few weeks have been horrendous, every person is at the lowest they’ve been since the beginning of all this.
The amount of posts I’ve read on various Facebook groups of people saying they don’t want to get up in the morning anymore, they just stay in bed. Surely this isn’t doing anyone any good physically or mentally?
Surely this will put most in a weaker position if they were to catch covid?

How much more are we all suppose to take of this? With no end in sight?

OP posts:
Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum · 09/02/2021 02:20

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Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum · 09/02/2021 02:20

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Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum · 09/02/2021 02:22

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tobee · 09/02/2021 03:56

@inquietant it's not that I disagree it's just that it's, as I said, unprecedented.

There are great upsides to it I'm all for a free press. The freedoms derived from the internet.

However, the potential drawbacks are various. As including social media and online commentary from people means there is a heck of a lot to read through. And analyse whether that information is useful or correct.

Plenty of non scientific people trying to analyse advanced virology, microbiology and vaccine development. Not really understanding what's significant information etc.

It's not a criticism so much as an observation; something to take into serious account surely?

tobee · 09/02/2021 03:58

And @inquietant you mention raw data access. Sounds great doesn't it? But of limited value of you can't analyse it. To possibly phd level. In that field.

tobee · 09/02/2021 04:01

"The vaccine only works until it doesn't work."

Which is why Johnathan van Tam and his colleagues around the world are attempting to get ahead of the game and tweak those vaccines so they do have that capability.

AquaFairySoul · 09/02/2021 04:12

I've no idea why we're bothering. The measures the gvmt put in place do nothing but wreck lives. If face coverings actually worked we would not have seen a third lockdown and second wave worst than the first. We're told to give up everything to save the nhs whilst our children lose out the most....and they're still letting people come into the country so far with no proper quarantine.
I'm all for not letting people die but the gvmts management of this and total neglect to consider the well-being of any child in this country makes me wonder what's the point. I'm CEV and I've never bothered to shield. I cant be bothered to wreck my life and my kids for one virus which doesn't kill the vast majority of people. There's plenty illnesses that would do me more harm.

None of this has been worth it ,- how Is it if with the measures put in place still leave us with a horrendous death toll of over 100k. I don't underestimate the seriousness of covid for some people, but, I seriously underestimate the horrific incompetence and constant double standards of the government. following their rules haven't exactly got us anywhere other than financial, physical and mental ruin

ElliFAntspoo · 09/02/2021 08:38

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@ElliFAntspoo you can’t change what the government tax on food, you can only change what you decide to eat on a daily basis, how you spend your day, you can choose to exercise every day or you can choose to sit on the sofa.[/quote]
I can't no.
What I do know is that when they introduced the alleged sugar tax, and then failed to tax sugar with it, they could have taxed processed sugars right across the board. They could have added 50p to ready meals, and £1 per 100g to chocolate, cakes, etc. and dramatically reduced the the amount that people buy.

ElliFAntspoo · 09/02/2021 08:48

@AquaFairySoul

I've no idea why we're bothering. The measures the gvmt put in place do nothing but wreck lives. If face coverings actually worked we would not have seen a third lockdown and second wave worst than the first. We're told to give up everything to save the nhs whilst our children lose out the most....and they're still letting people come into the country so far with no proper quarantine. I'm all for not letting people die but the gvmts management of this and total neglect to consider the well-being of any child in this country makes me wonder what's the point. I'm CEV and I've never bothered to shield. I cant be bothered to wreck my life and my kids for one virus which doesn't kill the vast majority of people. There's plenty illnesses that would do me more harm.

None of this has been worth it ,- how Is it if with the measures put in place still leave us with a horrendous death toll of over 100k. I don't underestimate the seriousness of covid for some people, but, I seriously underestimate the horrific incompetence and constant double standards of the government. following their rules haven't exactly got us anywhere other than financial, physical and mental ruin

1- Clearly masks work. Everyone with a brain knew this from day 1. The fact that the Scottish Government had to make a second public announcement that to explain to the Scottish people that masks should cover your nose as well as your mouth, and the fact that you can look at any video or photo of people in the London Underground with their masks not on, is testament to how dumb some people are.

2 - Clearly there are differences in qualities of masks. A purchased FFP2 or FFP3 filter mask will be better that something someone sewed out of an old pair of knickers.

3 - Everyone knows that the only way you can catch this is by letting it in through the holes in your face. If you do not let it in through the holes in your face, you do not catch it. Its that simple - So if you do catch it, you have been remiss in ensuring that you did not let it in through either your eyes, your nose or your mouth.

4 - The government are doing exactly what governments do. They are managing the public. They are telly those who need to be told things exactly what they need to be told at any one time. How much weight you care to give that, how much hope you choose to assign to that, and what plans you make based on that, are entirely down to you.

ElliFAntspoo · 09/02/2021 08:51

@tobee

"The vaccine only works until it doesn't work."

Which is why Johnathan van Tam and his colleagues around the world are attempting to get ahead of the game and tweak those vaccines so they do have that capability.

Yes, but what they are playing with has never been through any form of testing that would ever have been acceptable prior to last summer, and they also cannot be held accountable for what they say or do.
bumbleymummy · 09/02/2021 08:51

@myfriendsgivebadadvice

We only know about them because we’re one of the leading countries for genomic sequencing. If we didn’t, we wouldn’t really be too bothered as long as hospitalisations/deaths weren’t increasing.

Oh for goodness sake. You actually want to be on the back foot.

Or you want the men in white coats and the men in Whitehall to spring lockdowns they have seen coming for weeks but thought it was better for us not to bother our little heads with?

That is the most ridiculous thing I've read here.

Umm.. no, I want the scientists to keep doing their jobs and I want the media to stop reporting on every minor finding when there is not enough data to confirm anything.

What use is it to you to know all the names of the different strains and that they might be more virulent/transmissible but we don’t know yet? How is that helpful in any way? It isn’t.

We’re actually doing very well at the moment but people just jump on the ‘MUTANT VARIANT’ type headlines and start panicking and demanding harsher lockdowns/closed borders and schools not opening until September.
That is the most ridiculous thing.

Jangle33 · 09/02/2021 09:01

@AquaFairySoul of course it’s been worth it. Realise how awful a death toll it would have been with no restrictions, no lockdowns.

They believe 50 million died in the Spanish flu pandemic. That would have been the alternative, no?

Delatron · 09/02/2021 09:06

I think 50 million died in the Spanish flu due to the fact it was more serious in young healthy people, we didn’t have the healthcare and medical advances we do now. Completely different scenario.

We may have needed some level of lockdown to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed but it’s a very blunt tool and not supposed to be used continuously.

There is one argument that lockdowns result in the same deaths just prolonged over a longer period of time plus all the other devastation lockdowns cause. Of course we needed to protect the NHS mainly it couldn’t cope because it was underfunded for years.

GreenlandTheMovie · 09/02/2021 09:08

@tobee

And *@inquietant* you mention raw data access. Sounds great doesn't it? But of limited value of you can't analyse it. To possibly phd level. In that field.
I'm a lawyer, and part of the skills set is the ability to understand and critically analyse evidence from any given field to a standard sufficient to enable meaningful debate quickly.

So yes, I often do read through scientific or medical papers and underrstand them. I have a leftover comprehensive knowledge of antibiotics, for instance, from my days in medical negligence, that bamboozles a couple of GP friends.

I find it frustrating when other people, including scientists and doctors, confuse data with evidence. And then use scaremongering to fill in the gaps in that evidence and/or to excuse excessively risk averse decision making. There is something about the nhs in this country that encourages medics to become overtly risk averse, sometimes to the point of encouraging lack of exercise and socialisation necessary fir healthy human lives. Which is the situation we are stuck in in the UK now.

Let's not forget too that Professor Neil Ferguson is a physisist and that one of the leading viriologists in the world, Sir Hugh Pennington, has been completely sudelined during this in favour of a dentist and a nurse, presumably because he is not an Snp supporter.

What I can tell you is that the government has employed purposive thinking throughout (in other words, they find the scientific expert with the viewpoint that supports their policies) and constantly refers to "the science" (which varies) rather than the evidence. I can also tell you that the death rates do not justify the prolonged loss of human rights that we see in Europe in international law, and that the European response in particular is marked by competition between governments to appear to be seen to be the most caring in terms of "saving lives". We are well outwith the parameters used in Article 15 of the ECHR permitting derogations, along with the Syraceuse Principles. It's all about politicians being seen to remain electable.

In Scotland, for much of last summer, we had the farcical situation of swimming pools and gyms being closed while pubs remained open and you could meet strangers as long as you were sitting down for a drink. The Scottish Government were presumably aware of how risky this was, as they announced that singing, laughing and shouting in pubs was banned). This was the cause of many subsequent infections. Meanwhile, football matches and training were permitted while all other competitive sport in Scotland was banned (although it was taking place in the rest of Europe). It made no sense and youre not telling me that that was nothing more than a politically motivated policy designed to keep the ruling party in power. That is not an example of evidence-based decision making on public health grounds. It is an a example of unaccountable abuse of power.

Delatron · 09/02/2021 09:10

Completely agree @GreenlandTheMovie
Great post.

pinkearedcow · 09/02/2021 09:10

@AquaFairySoul I don't understand your reasoning. 100K dead WITH lockdowns demonstrates how dangerous covid is and how contagious it is.

bumbleymummy · 09/02/2021 09:13

Of course we needed to protect the NHS mainly it couldn’t cope because it was underfunded for years.

^This. We are all paying for this now. The NHS has been under pressure for years. Every winter they’ve been stretched to breaking point. It’s taken a pandemic and several months worth of restrictions for people to finally sit up and take notice.

ilikegrapes21 · 09/02/2021 09:28

@bumbleymummy

Of course we needed to protect the NHS mainly it couldn’t cope because it was underfunded for years.

^This. We are all paying for this now. The NHS has been under pressure for years. Every winter they’ve been stretched to breaking point. It’s taken a pandemic and several months worth of restrictions for people to finally sit up and take notice.

I don't think any health service around the world has been able to cope without any restrictions though (I'm not talking about Aus/NZ where the virus hasn't spread). So even if we had more capacity to begin with, we'd still have had to lockdown to stop it being overwhelmed due to how infectious covid is without restrictions- I believe the natural R rate is around 4.
TooManyPlatesInMotion · 09/02/2021 09:51

Great post @GreenlandTheMovie

Mydogdoesntlisten · 09/02/2021 10:09

Another one here to say great post GreenlandTheMovie

goodnightsugarpop · 09/02/2021 11:02

I've started reading all of this person's posts in my head in the voice of the Daleks

THE THREAT. OF FORCE AND PUNISHMENTS. WILL CONTINUE!!!!

Makes this thread a lot more fun