Astrazeneca less effective against mild illness in SA variant

[bathsh3ba]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55967767

NB this was a sample of 2000, not yet peer reviewed.

I'm beginning to wish they wouldn't report incomplete findings so publicly. All the commentary suggests it's too early to say if this is a big problem or not - so why tell us?!

According to Prof Peter Openshaw, an immunologist from Imperial College London, mild forms of the illness meant that the virus was only present in the nose and upper airway, whereas "the disease that we are most fearful of is when it gets down deep into the lungs" and potentially affects other organs of the body.

"I think there is very little doubt these vaccines will prevent that sort of spread of the virus outside the confines of the upper respiratory tract," he told the BBC.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum - that sounds v encouraging, thanks for that 😊

Bad luck doommongers - sounds like the AZ vaccine is “highly likely” to protect against severe illness from the South African variant after all, if y’know, the experts are anything to go by:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55983453

Next!

Also there is a comment on the Guardian live feed - further details yet to come - that a study of Pfizer (which is the main vaccine distributed worldwide currently) does in fact 'neutralise' the SA variant.
If the Pfizer works, and the AZ protects against severe disease and death, then we can find something else to panic about.

@Dongdingdong

Bad luck doommongers - sounds like the AZ vaccine is “highly likely” to protect against severe illness from the South African variant after all, if y’know, the experts are anything to go by:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55983453

Next!

Openshaw's comment today to the BMJ:

“The information we have is very limited, but the trial seems to have been restricted to HIV negative younger people [with a] mean age [of] 31—about 1000 in the placebo arm and 1000 in the active vaccine group. In this age group and with these numbers, the effect on severe disease is going to be hard to estimate. Without seeing results in detail it isn’t possible to be sure how firm these conclusions are.

“However, if the press reports are correct it does seem of concern that protection against disease was not shown. The findings of the Novavax vaccine trial of 60% efficacy in the prevention of disease of any severity in HIV negative volunteers in South Africa might also suggest that vaccines will need to be updated in line with emerging mutations of the virus.”

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n372

But hey Boris is "very confident" (and I see he is careful to refer to "vaccines" generally rather than AZ specifically) .... I feel we've been here before. Best to wait for the actual evidence in my view.

Anyone else just watched JVT on the briefing? His usual wonderful reassuring self. I feel much better now.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum but the conclusion of the trial was that the vaccine provides minimal protection against mild and moderate disease. Moderate disease affects the lungs, just not dangerously so.If it can cause moderate disease in the healthy and young, then it seems prematurely optimistic to assume it couldn't cause severe disease in the vulnerable and elderly.

JVT is v impressive and delivers his messages clearly and in a measured way. He stresses that AZ effective against current virus (so people should continue to get vaccinated) but acknowledges further work needed for new strains. Much more reassuring than Boris-style bullshit!

@MarcelineMissouri

Anyone else just watched JVT on the briefing? His usual wonderful reassuring self. I feel much better now.

Yes he’s very good

If it can cause moderate disease in the healthy and young, then it seems prematurely optimistic to assume it couldn't cause severe disease in the vulnerable and elderly.

This is what I don’t understand.

I keep seeing experts saying that the J&J vaccine protects against severe cases and as that’s a similar vaccine to the AZ one that gives comfort that the AZ vaccine will also protect against severe cases.

Has anyone seen whether the J&J vaccine offers protection for mild and moderate cases?

@Frazzled2207

Also there is a comment on the Guardian live feed - further details yet to come - that a study of Pfizer (which is the main vaccine distributed worldwide currently) does in fact 'neutralise' the SA variant. If the Pfizer works, and the AZ protects against severe disease and death, then we can find something else to panic about.

Results show key mutations N501Y, 69/70-deletion, D614G, and E484K from variant B.1.1.7 and B.1.351 have little effect on neutralisation by sera elicited by two doses of the vaccine. www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01270-4

@Dongdingdong

Bad luck doommongers - sounds like the AZ vaccine is “highly likely” to protect against severe illness from the South African variant after all, if y’know, the experts are anything to go by:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55983453

Next!

Just a few months ago we would have been singing from the rooftops about a vaccine that was even partially effective. We’ve lost all sense of context I think. It is still massively good news - the speed at which we are going and how effectthe vaccines are against current strains.

Also - why didn’t we ever spend undue amounts of time worrying about your normal viruses that circulate ever year in terms of mutations??

My dad had his today, and was given the Oxford one. He was told it is not effective against the South African variant, but hopefully it will have been tweaked by the time he is due for his next jab.

My friends mother who is also vulnerable has just received the same vaccine. I've heard of a couple other vulnerable people being given it. Yet my friend, who is in her 30s and healthy, was given the Pfizer.

Why are they giving the most effective vaccine to those who are actually healthy enough to stand a better chance of fighting the SA variant, and leaving the vulnerable to remain vulnerable...just with a little feeling of being safe because they have been vaccinated.

That shit makes no sense to me. Now they're calling up those who may have missed theirs and I have a funny feeling they will all be given the Oxford one so they can get rid of the bulk they have bought. Leaving the vulnerable still with the same vulnerability as before the vaccine.

My dad had his today, and was given the Oxford one. He was told it is not effective against the South African variant, but hopefully it will have been tweaked by the time he is due for his next jab.

Sounds like whoever gave your dad the vaccine should learn to keep their mouth shut! (Or has spent too much time on gloom mongering mumsnet threads!) See posts above re JVT. There's no evidence that that is the case

My dad had his today, and was given the Oxford one. He was told it is not effective against the South African variant, but hopefully it will have been tweaked by the time he is due for his next jab.

How irresponsible. I'd be complaining, not about him getting the AZ vaccine but about the person vaccinating giving dangerous misinformation.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

My dad had his today, and was given the Oxford one. He was told it is not effective against the South African variant, but hopefully it will have been tweaked by the time he is due for his next jab.

How irresponsible. I'd be complaining, not about him getting the AZ vaccine but about the person vaccinating giving dangerous misinformation.

So if they said that, they need removing as a vaccinator

Oh wow. I'm going to phone him and tell him that that isn't the case! He is disappointed but had his hopes on a tweaking by his next dose. He will be relieved to hear this.
Thank you!

Your poor Dad @TheChip, why on earth would anyone think it was appropriate to say that to him. I hope he's ok 💐

My parents live abroad and there they don't give AZ to over seventies. My parents will get something else. I was worried that they get AZ and I couldn't really visit them

My dad is convinced it is not as effective. He said they are no longer using that vaccine in Africa because its useless.

So maybe he has been the one to steer the conversation with the vaccinator in the direction it went.

The az vaccine is effective against the majority of strains of cv that are circulating in the country right now. So it's still absolutely worth having, even if it doesnt protect against the SA variant.

@TheChip

My dad is convinced it is not as effective. He said they are no longer using that vaccine in Africa because its useless.

So maybe he has been the one to steer the conversation with the vaccinator in the direction it went.

That’s totally not true. It may not be as effective as others but it’s not useless. It’s likely to prevent serious illness and death which is the main point of it.

@MrsMauryBallstein

JVT is v impressive and delivers his messages clearly and in a measured way. He stresses that AZ effective against current virus (so people should continue to get vaccinated) but acknowledges further work needed for new strains. Much more reassuring than Boris-style bullshit!

He is very reassuring and doesn’t glibly dismiss what people are thinking and fearing but seeks to address them in easy to understand language.

Boris is an astonishingly poor communicator!

@TheChip

My dad had his today, and was given the Oxford one. He was told it is not effective against the South African variant, but hopefully it will have been tweaked by the time he is due for his next jab.

My friends mother who is also vulnerable has just received the same vaccine. I've heard of a couple other vulnerable people being given it. Yet my friend, who is in her 30s and healthy, was given the Pfizer.

Why are they giving the most effective vaccine to those who are actually healthy enough to stand a better chance of fighting the SA variant, and leaving the vulnerable to remain vulnerable...just with a little feeling of being safe because they have been vaccinated.

That shit makes no sense to me. Now they're calling up those who may have missed theirs and I have a funny feeling they will all be given the Oxford one so they can get rid of the bulk they have bought. Leaving the vulnerable still with the same vulnerability as before the vaccine.

That was so irresponsible of the vaccinator to say that to your Dad. They’ve stated something that nobody knows to be true!

And because the SA variant is by a country mile NOT the dominant strain in the UK, he will be protected.

I don’t know what the reasoning is why some people are getting one vaccine and some the other - maybe someone more knowledgeable than me will say but I’d imagine it’s simply down to supply and whatever they actually have available.
My mom had the AZ and my sister had the Pfizer so who knows. But I’m comfortable in the knowledge that they’re both highly likely to be protected from severe disease now (my sister is CEV)

The media have a lot to fucking answer for with their reporting on the AZ and the SA variant!! They’re totally undermining public confidence in the vaccine which could be detrimental to the whole roll out! Shame on lazy reporting and moronic journalists