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Conspiracy theorists - mental illness or stupidity?

178 replies

Notcontent · 07/02/2021 00:05

I know people who believe if really crazy conspiracies have always been around, but this pandemic has really brought them out of the woodwork... I mean, how could you realistically believe that Covid-19 does not exist, or that the vaccines contain microchips??

Some people who believe those things might have a low IQ and/ or poor education and so lack any “critical thinking” skills - and so might not be able to see why this is really illogical. But what about people who are clearly reasonably intelligent and well educated - like Jeremy Corbyn’s brother. Is it almost like a mental illness? Do they become so obsessed with being anti-establishment that they lose the plot?

OP posts:
Duggeehugs82 · 07/02/2021 19:17

@Pastanred

To be honest I look down on those who have an irrational fear of covid jus as much

People washing shopping
People in their 30/40 who are scared (cev aside)
People who blame those who meet a friend yet are in bubbles themselves
People who are scared to go to work yet expect colleagues to ‘hold the fort’

All of those I feel are thick as their fear - in most cases- it’s irrational and stems from mh as anxiety in general

In real life no one I know gives a shit about covid - fear wise I mean

If someone has anxiety about anything they r certainly not thick how insulting! And i live in a house surrounded by 5 houses and 3 of houses are taking covid very seriously and they r actively trying to provent getting it , so maybe in real life u dont and also if u have a pre existing condition which makes u high risk, then why wouldnt u be extra careful are they thick too?
Floridaflipflops · 07/02/2021 19:20

OP you havnt taken in to account the usage and nature of social media and how it’s used to change peoples behaviour and thoughts.

The algorithms in these platforms were specifically made to keep the interest of people for profit. They can see just by seeing how long you look at picture, what you open, what you like and what engagement you had, the algorithm will then start putting content out especially for you as it knows you have a high statistic of staying on = more profit - especially ‘going down the rabbit hole’ on you tube.

Facebook/Instagram/ YouTube/Google/Pintrest are all run this way. There isn’t an army of humans posting stuff for you or coincidence -it’s AI. I was talking to a friend once on the phone and said I fancied a trip to Sardina. 10 mins later an ad on my facebook came up - ‘Low cost fights to Sardinia’ . It really isn’t coincidental.

So if a person is open to looking at or maybe possibly interested in finding out non mainstream stuff the AI will hook them in and take them down a path which is probably totally different to the one that your on. It’s no coincidence that all the friends that you see on your facebook news feed think like you - it’s managed that way. SM wants you to be happy and addicted to your phone/iPad so it shows you what you want to see and whilst you are there you will see many many paid ads. Which create ££££ for these platforms. It’s very clever.

So it isn’t that they are dumb, stupid or mentally ill - the AI has manipulated them in to behaving in that way. Probably just like your facebook manipulates you in to behaving the way you do. If you posted or searched for a topic on facebook - say ‘anti vaccine’ facebook search engine will suggest other anti vax groups - facebook found your people. Same goes ‘paddle boarding’ or ‘fishing’
Joe Bloggs didn’t wake up one morning and put a tin hat on - he would have been down many many rabbits holes, seems many many posts all pointing to this decision being hand held by SM

So it’s just not as basic as ‘they are mentally ill and you should not underestimate the power of manipulation SM has on our very primitive brains

Dodododahdahdah · 07/02/2021 19:23

You all say people who believe in “conspiracy theories” are mentally ill, scared or uneducated?

Do you know 1 in 4 people in France are apparently going to refuse the vax?

So a quarter of the French are mentally ill?

What’s really going on here is that lots and lots of people have different views to you. But most of the time you don’t know about it. Because you are so hell bent that the World must function how you want it to! So bossy and righteous. You obviously keep your circles very small so that you don’t have to be pained by the injustice of people not towing the line. And those who can’t avoid you, just say what you want to hear.

Donoteatthekittens · 07/02/2021 19:24

www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/east/series10/week9_aerial_spraying.shtml

“Between 1953 and 1964 top secret trials were carried out using a chemical concoction of zinc cadmium sulphide to simulate how a cloud would disperse biological agents.

The unsuspecting population was sprayed covertly with the poisonous compound at least 76 times.

The story resurfaced last year after Wyn Parry, a thoracic surgeon at Norfolk and Norwich University Hospital, highlighted an upward trend in cases of throat cancer.”

But obviously that’s just a conspiracy theory.

Dodododahdahdah · 07/02/2021 19:27

There has never been a worse mental health crisis than 60 billion people, hiding and crapping themselves over a virus with a 99% recovery rate. That’s mental health problems to a whole new fucking level.

XenoBitch · 07/02/2021 19:27

@Pastanred

To be honest I look down on those who have an irrational fear of covid jus as much

People washing shopping
People in their 30/40 who are scared (cev aside)
People who blame those who meet a friend yet are in bubbles themselves
People who are scared to go to work yet expect colleagues to ‘hold the fort’

All of those I feel are thick as their fear - in most cases- it’s irrational and stems from mh as anxiety in general

In real life no one I know gives a shit about covid - fear wise I mean

I know a chap who was asked to go into his workplace... an empty office, just once every couple of weeks. His fear of Covid got him to the point that he bought a camper van and lived in it, away from his wife and children, just in case he infected them. Middle of winter.. no heater and no water. Totally blamed "rule breakers" for his extreme measures, and not his own anxieties. Utter madness. Daft thing is, he now works for the NHS and is happy to go to work and go home again daily. Covid fear seems to have gone.

I don't think he is ill or stupid.. maybe that his anxieties and anger are misplaced. You get them at both ends of the spectrum.

StormcloakNord · 07/02/2021 19:28

I've always thought the problem was with education.

People need to be taught how to research properly, what to look out for and how to spot "fake news". There isn't enough critical thinking and this is where ludicrous conspiracies come from and why people are so quick to believe mumbo jumbo about the vaccine affecting fertility and being used to keep an eye on Susan from fucking Birmingham.

Eckhart · 07/02/2021 19:32

@Floridaflipflops

So, something in your phone was listening to the content of your verbal phone conversation, and basing marketing on it?

Onedropbeat · 07/02/2021 19:47

@StormcloakNord

I've always thought the problem was with education.

People need to be taught how to research properly, what to look out for and how to spot "fake news". There isn't enough critical thinking and this is where ludicrous conspiracies come from and why people are so quick to believe mumbo jumbo about the vaccine affecting fertility and being used to keep an eye on Susan from fucking Birmingham.

100% this
Floridaflipflops · 07/02/2021 20:02

[quote Eckhart]@Floridaflipflops

So, something in your phone was listening to the content of your verbal phone conversation, and basing marketing on it?[/quote]
Yes and it’s not so shocking. All smart phones do it and now we even have devices like Alexa. ( which I’ve got too!) Don’t get me wrong I don’t think men in grey suits are listening in or anything but the tech in the phone can and does pick up stuff. When you download the facebook app on your phone it asks you to accept the microphone - have you ever read the T&C?

Facebook/Twitter and google had to give testimony over the interference from Russia in the US 2016 elections because it was suspected that they used the tools in those platforms to create ‘Fake news’ and rig the election.

Conspiracies have always been about but these platforms were able to get in to everyone’s home and target the people that were more susceptible to it. The platforms were started to make money but they are and can be used in very dangerous ways ( see above) - but the AI doesn’t care what the content is ( as it’s just a computer) all it’s bothered is that the user stays engaged as that earns money.

Dodododahdahdah · 07/02/2021 20:14

In reference to the above comment about AI, which is true and I can’t believe you people who are so “educated “ don’t know this- well I can actually.

However it’s interesting how you’ve accepted it because the person showed she was on your side by referring to conspiracy theorists as easily manipulated or more easily manipulated than non conspiracy theorists 🙄

Had a conspiracy theorist told you this youde have been shouting “off with their head”

Floridaflipflops · 07/02/2021 20:27

@Dodododahdahdah

In reference to the above comment about AI, which is true and I can’t believe you people who are so “educated “ don’t know this- well I can actually.

However it’s interesting how you’ve accepted it because the person showed she was on your side by referring to conspiracy theorists as easily manipulated or more easily manipulated than non conspiracy theorists 🙄

Had a conspiracy theorist told you this youde have been shouting “off with their head”

Where in my post did I say conspiracy theorists are easily manipulated? I didn’t. I said every one is manipulated when they use these platforms to some degree.

My whole post was in defence of people getting called mentally ill or dumb. So not sure if you even read my posts properly tbh Confused

Floridaflipflops · 07/02/2021 20:32

What is really scary is that when Mark Zuckerburg ( owner of facebook) was asked how he was going to stop fake news ( which tbh is fucking us up as a society) he answered that he would create better AI to manage it....

But how can a computer know what’s a lie?

7Days · 07/02/2021 20:33

@rosetylersbiggun
You quoted me above and I rather think you have missed my point.
My point is that "entry level" conspiracies are rarely extreme. Usually they are a difference of opinion between experts in their field. And the average person is not conversant with the intricacies in that field to weigh up the evidence independently. So the average person brings their own background knowledge to bear. In this example it's the origins of Covid. So not knowing how to analyse the genomic sequence people bring their background knowledge - how the pharmaceutical industry works, what credentials are respected, the current state of geopolitics, times the MSM and the govt has been wrong before - and that tips the balance in deciding who to trust.

That's the crux, I think, deciding who to trust. And the problem is, people no longer trust our institutions - people see them as politicised, in service to a particular party or ideology or agenda.

Once you Google to find out, the algorithm has you then and will quickly figure out what to serve you. And theres strength in numbers, you only get entrenched in a particular worldview.

There will be other issues - climate science, or gender studies, or should faith schools exist - whatever. Nobilody is going to spend all their free time on coursera or whatever to learn all this - the world is too complex. The dynamic is the same whatever the topic.

Duggeehugs82 · 07/02/2021 20:39

The trunp campaign had a operation called project Alamo, where cambridge analytica who havested the data from fb and fb worked together to distribute targeted advertising to particular groups of people

Floridaflipflops · 07/02/2021 20:42

[quote 7Days]@rosetylersbiggun
You quoted me above and I rather think you have missed my point.
My point is that "entry level" conspiracies are rarely extreme. Usually they are a difference of opinion between experts in their field. And the average person is not conversant with the intricacies in that field to weigh up the evidence independently. So the average person brings their own background knowledge to bear. In this example it's the origins of Covid. So not knowing how to analyse the genomic sequence people bring their background knowledge - how the pharmaceutical industry works, what credentials are respected, the current state of geopolitics, times the MSM and the govt has been wrong before - and that tips the balance in deciding who to trust.

That's the crux, I think, deciding who to trust. And the problem is, people no longer trust our institutions - people see them as politicised, in service to a particular party or ideology or agenda.

Once you Google to find out, the algorithm has you then and will quickly figure out what to serve you. And theres strength in numbers, you only get entrenched in a particular worldview.

There will be other issues - climate science, or gender studies, or should faith schools exist - whatever. Nobilody is going to spend all their free time on coursera or whatever to learn all this - the world is too complex. The dynamic is the same whatever the topic.[/quote]
Spot on!

Duggeehugs82 · 07/02/2021 20:49

My point is social media is activly giving people fake information on their fears and with algorithms its a recipe for disaster and it does worry me about the future of people getting their information and i think this links to conspiracy theories because they pedal fake news

Duggeehugs82 · 07/02/2021 20:50

And make it so easy for people to go down rabbit holes and just not be prepared to come back out. It eventually stops peoples ability to think clearly

NotNowPlzz · 07/02/2021 20:59

Google 'conspiracy theories that turned out to be true'.

Floridaflipflops · 07/02/2021 21:34

@Duggeehugs82

And make it so easy for people to go down rabbit holes and just not be prepared to come back out. It eventually stops peoples ability to think clearly
I don’t think it’s not be prepared to come back out it’s not being able to. If you are with a group of people, sometimes hundreds of thousands of people all saying the same as you and all with their own evidence who are you going to believe? Just look at Mayanmer. A genocide that was incited on facebook Shock 24,000 people massacred and it was kicked off on facebook. And Facebook admitted it.

The internet is flooded with fake news - on both sides. Real news can look fake and face news look real. There are people actively trying to cause damage to society by causing confusion and division.

Tbh I love a good conspiracy thread! I can go down a rabbit hole of my own and spend an hour looking up the titanic or Adolf Hitler. But the recent confusion/fake news over covid/child killing devil worshippers has me actually really worried. Society is eating its self

rosetylersbiggun · 07/02/2021 23:34

Usually they are a difference of opinion between experts in their field. And the average person is not conversant with the intricacies in that field to weigh up the evidence independently.

But that simply isn't true, and reducing something like anti-vaxxers or climate change deniers to "well the experts disagree!" is peak conspiracy theory-talk. Its just another tactic. There are plenty of things where the scientific community HAS (generally) formed a consensus, but conspiracy theories and people with an agenda will latch onto the odd rando with a PhD in order to promote the myth and lie that "but experts disagree."

It doesn't take much research at all to discover that 99.99% of the global scientific community is in agreement that analyse of C19's genomic code shows it cannot have been created in a lab, that only one largely discredited paper from two people who have a financial agenda and dubious political backing say otherwise, that it's simply not plausible that thousands of scientists from a dozen different countries would all enter into a mass conspiracy to protect China. It's also telling that whenever posters say "well some experts say it was created in a lab" they are never able to provide any information (which I have provided) into who these "experts" are. Most people saying "well I think Covid was created in a lab because I don't trust the Chinese you know what the Chinese government is like and anyway experts are divided!!" haven't bothered to do even a cursory Google search, they've just seen one Facebook post or one Mumsnet post claiming "some experts say it's manmade" and are parroting it without question. Yet according to the pro-conspiracy theorist/Q-Anon posters, conspiracy theorists are highly educated people who spend their time diligently researching peer-reviewed journal articles. That's just bollocks. It's pretty clear some of the CT posters on this thread haven't even spent 30 seconds on google, much less read reams of scientific journals.

Look at the posts confidently stating that mRNA vaccines have never been tested on humans before, when simply entering "mRNA human vaccine trials" into Google immediately throws up a thousand results on... mRNA human vaccine trials, including the actual study published in the Lancet on the major mRNA vaccine human trial which started all the way back in 2013 and lasted for more than two years.

That's what's dangerous: blindly believing everything you read online, cherry picking information, not accepting that things like scientific consensus exists, and rejecting any facts that don't fit your agenda.

My point is social media is activly giving people fake information on their fears and with algorithms its a recipe for disaster and it does worry me about the future of people getting their information and i think this links to conspiracy theories because they pedal fake news

I completely agree. I have a very slight personal connection/insight into the Cambridge Analytica scandal and the weaponisation of fake news and social media manipulation honestly terrifies me.

mustbebetter · 07/02/2021 23:36

Social media, it slowly brainwashes people. Expose people to a lie often enough and it will start to sink in. Dangerous thing isn't it!

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 08/02/2021 00:34

Big gold buses go through it. And the measles rates are ridiculous.

DP jokes about getting holiday vaccinations to visit his grandmother at the eastern end of the bus route.

Duggeehugs82 · 08/02/2021 16:30

Ive just watched the social dilemma on Netflixs and it explains quite clearly how it is possible their are so many conspiracy theorists and how social media is a danger to society

MercyBooth · 09/02/2021 14:50

I dont suppose Norman Bakers revelations will have helped matters.