Poll on compulsory covid vaccination in 2021-2023

[lljkk]

I don't know what real policy will be, I just wondered about gauging the range of views of readers on this board (chance for lurkers to reply). I will summarise replies if more than 20. Which of the below policies is closest to your own preference, about what the covid vaccination policy should be, for UK adults in 2021-2023?

1. Optional for everyone, not required by any employer or for customers of a business to show evidence or "reasonable excuse" not to have had it

2. Not compulsory for all, but health and social care employers can legally require the jab for staff who work with any clinically vulnerable; refusal would be permitted grounds for dismissal if jab not medically contra-indicated

3. Not compulsory for all, but any employers allowed to require the jab for staff (refusal would be permitted grounds for dismissal); businesses allowed to require jab among customers, thus no jab = legally refuse service

4. Compulsory for all adults without medical contra-indications

@Notthemessiah

1

Those voting 3 are really voting 4, but they're pretending that they're giving people a choice, so they don't have to feel guilty about forcing people to giving up their bodily autonomy to the state.

This!

3 is the illusion of choice.

In reality if all businesses did this for staff and customers then you would have to get vaccinated or else you would be with no income and an outcast. The choice is taken away from you.

1 should be the answer, anything else is a slippery slope.

This phrase springs in mind:

You give in an inch, they take a mile.

Give up body autonomy for vaccinations, next time you might be giving up body autonomy for abortions. In the US this is already happening.

1

@OogieBoogiePlant
Exactly. Because those voting an absolute 4 haven't clarified HOW they'd like the law reinforced. People given injections by force, with police help? Prison/stiff fine? Their homes put under military guard?

No: just make life impossible for them. Punish them. No shopping, no work, no travel anywhere. Shunned by society, the un-inoculated would be quite literally outcasts. Maybe they should be shoved on to an island by themselves.

3 is the illusion of choice

I totally disagree. 3 acknowledges that choices have consequences. And one individuals rights need to be considered in the context of other people’s rights.

We put conditions on employment, entry to particular spaces and travel already. I don’t understand why this should be any different.

1

Still looking for the list of studies I saw a while ago, but I came across this. It's quite technical, but it does show effectivity.

vdmeta.com/

Conclusion
Vitamin D is an effective treatment for COVID-19. Random effects meta-analysis of the 15 treatment studies to date results in an estimated reduction of 65% in the effect measured, RR 0.35 [0.23-0.53].

The thing is: Vitamin D is a harmless and cheap supplement that we can ALL take to reduce our chances of Covid complications. You can get a whole year's supply of 4000iu D3 for less than 10 quid. So why wouldn't you? Why does the NHS say it is "not recommended"??? What if this had been started months ago, at the start of autumn? Where would be have been now?
What is the problem? The answer is in the stars. (Or in some people's bank accounts.)

3

3 acknowledges that choices have consequences.

With 3 the only choice is to vaccinate or else risk being unable to provide for your family and end up homeless (My previous comment was about what if all businesses did this).This isn't a choice freely taken. It's a choice forced upon you because the alternative is unviable.

@OogieBoogiePlant

3 acknowledges that choices have consequences.

With 3 the only choice is to vaccinate or else risk being unable to provide for your family and end up homeless (My previous comment was about what if all businesses did this).This isn't a choice freely taken. It's a choice forced upon you because the alternative is unviable.

I agree. And I think that's a dangerous round to go down.

1

With 3 the only choice is to vaccinate or else risk being unable to provide for your family and end up homeless

Nope. Only certain sectors would need to have this as criteria. Care homes/healthcare being the obvious ones.

@Mintjulia

3

I've done a couple of international Jobs where travel to less developed countries has been part of the role. The company paid for health insurance, and that insurance required certain innoculations in order to provide cover. I don't see why Covid should be any different.

Thank you you put the reasons I said 3 into better words than I could

@TheKeatingFive

With 3 the only choice is to vaccinate or else risk being unable to provide for your family and end up homeless

Nope. Only certain sectors would need to have this as criteria. Care homes/healthcare being the obvious ones.

According to OP's phrasing I would say that's option 2. Option 3 was left open to interpretation that all businesses could enforce rules like that.

My comments were based on every business following that.

@TheKeatingFive

With 3 the only choice is to vaccinate or else risk being unable to provide for your family and end up homeless

Nope. Only certain sectors would need to have this as criteria. Care homes/healthcare being the obvious ones.

Op's post said any employer for option 3. Care/health was option 2. Based on that, the "choice" would be vaccinate or lose your job. Not a real choice for many.

I think any business that is high risk for spread and/or caters to vulnerable individuals should have the choice to impose it as an condition of entry or employment.

Whether it’s high risk or not should be defined by the government.

None of us have the right to do any job we want btw. There are qualification based criteria for many jobs and also physical conditions for some already.

1

None of us have the right to do any job we want btw. There are qualification based criteria for many jobs and also physical conditions for some already

Well put, Keating - and of course those needs have always changed according to circumstances

To use a silly example, I've no doubt it inconvenienced some when they banned shoving kids up chimneys, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do

@TheKeatingFive

None of us have the right to do any job we want btw. There are qualification based criteria for many jobs and also physical conditions for some already.

That's fine as long as people can do some jobs. If option 3 was adopted by every single business out there then people will be faced with no jobs at all.

1 otherwise it is a slippery slope & we could end up losing bodily autonomy over other things. I'm very pro vaccination but it is everyone's own personal choice if they have them or not.

@Grannycurls

Still looking for the list of studies I saw a while ago, but I came across this. It's quite technical, but it does show effectivity.

vdmeta.com/

Conclusion
Vitamin D is an effective treatment for COVID-19. Random effects meta-analysis of the 15 treatment studies to date results in an estimated reduction of 65% in the effect measured, RR 0.35 [0.23-0.53].

The thing is: Vitamin D is a harmless and cheap supplement that we can ALL take to reduce our chances of Covid complications. You can get a whole year's supply of 4000iu D3 for less than 10 quid. So why wouldn't you? Why does the NHS say it is "not recommended"??? What if this had been started months ago, at the start of autumn? Where would be have been now?
What is the problem? The answer is in the stars. (Or in some people's bank accounts.)

The government are giving out free vitamin D supplements to high risk groups:

www.gov.uk/government/news/at-risk-groups-to-receive-free-winter-supply-of-vitamin-d

I've taken high dose Vitamin D ever since Covid started, a minimum of 4000iu a day as part of the supplement plan for my B12 jabs.

I don't get the vit d thing either what harm could it do to have tried it. It may have even helped save some Lives

@bumbleymummy
Yes, but 400 units is far too weak. And they recommend it for "bones and muscles " which isn't good enough! At least 4000 is needed to combat covid.

The advice fromPHEis for everybody to take 10 micrograms (400 IU) of vitamin D a day between October and early March to keep bones and muscles healthy