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Poll on compulsory covid vaccination in 2021-2023

484 replies

lljkk · 06/02/2021 12:41

I don't know what real policy will be, I just wondered about gauging the range of views of readers on this board (chance for lurkers to reply). I will summarise replies if more than 20. Which of the below policies is closest to your own preference, about what the covid vaccination policy should be, for UK adults in 2021-2023?

  1. Optional for everyone, not required by any employer or for customers of a business to show evidence or "reasonable excuse" not to have had it

  2. Not compulsory for all, but health and social care employers can legally require the jab for staff who work with any clinically vulnerable; refusal would be permitted grounds for dismissal if jab not medically contra-indicated

  3. Not compulsory for all, but any employers allowed to require the jab for staff (refusal would be permitted grounds for dismissal); businesses allowed to require jab among customers, thus no jab = legally refuse service

  4. Compulsory for all adults without medical contra-indications

OP posts:
ellyeth · 09/03/2021 19:06

One argument is that although most people who have had the vaccine will be protected against those who haven't, there will still be some people who can't have it because of an underlying health condition. So, it is argued, those who refuse to be vaccinated should be held responsible for putting those people at risk.

Surely then, if you use that argument, everybody should be expected to have every type of vaccination. Illnesses that generally do not seriously damage the average person can seriously affect those who have a compromised immune system and so should vaccination against thosese illnesses also be subject to governmental pressure? There are dozens of vaccines now, so that would mean everybody would be pressured to have them in order to protect those who are vulnerable. Lots of people have the flu vaccine but then lots of people don't. Flu can cause serious illness, so should those who choose not to have the flu vaccine be accused of putting others at risk? And yet, we are told that just because you have had the vaccine doesn't necessarily mean that you cannot transmit the illness to other people.

I would argue that if people can be refused employment, entry to pubs, restaurants, colleges, shops, universities, cinemas, public buildings, transport, etc, etc, etc that is, in reality, coercion by the back door. Most people have to work so they would have no choice whatsoever but to acquiesce to the "request" that they be vaccinated. The idea that people should be coerced into accepting a medical intervention of any type makes me very uneasy.

ellyeth · 09/03/2021 19:44

For those who argue a vaccine is not a "medical intervention", I disagree.

This was reported in the Guardian in 2013:

"The government is to reverse its stance on the safety of a swine flu vaccine given to 6 million people in Britain and accept that on rare occasions the jab can trigger the devastating sleep disorder narcolepsy.

"The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has contacted people turned down for compensation last year to explain that, after a review of fresh evidence, it now accepts the vaccine can cause the condition. The move leaves the government open to compensation claims from around 100 people in Britain, and substantial legal fees if a group action drawn up by solicitors is successful.

"Peter Todd, who is preparing the case at the London firm Hodge, Jones and Allen, said that damages could reach £1m for each person...........................

"The condition is a rare but serious neurological disorder that affects about 31,000 people in Britain. The condition can cause massive sleep disruption. The worst hit are often young people who face enormous learning difficulties at school and university. The disorder can destroy self-esteem, and bullying is common. Adults can lose their jobs, their driving licences, and can have difficulties with relationships. Some narcoleptics have another condition called cataplexy, a total loss of muscle control.

"The government U-turn follows a major study of four- to 18-year-olds by the Health Protection Agency which found that around one in every 55,000 jabs was associated with narcolepsy. A spokesman for GSK said it had details of around 900 people from 14 countries who had narcolepsy and were vaccinated.""

It could be quite validly argued, I think, that the risk of vaccine damage is far less than the risk of serious illness or death from any given illness. However, to suggest that a vaccine is not a medical intervention which can, in rare cases, cause life-changing health issues, is misleading.

Perhaps if we could be sure that governments would always do the right thing and properly investigate the claims of people who say they have been affected by certain medical interventions, rather than try to sweep matters under the carpet, it would give me more confidence. But we have had several cases where liability has been strenuously denied but have later been proven, eg the contaminated blood and vaginal mesh scandals. There is also the issue of financial compensation. Drug companies have been exempted from liability by the government from any claims, and so claimants have to either accept the £120,000 limit on the government vaccine compensation scheme or, presumably, fight the matter out in court.

Flyonawalk · 09/03/2021 19:47

Bodily autonomy is important.

minchinfin · 09/03/2021 20:09

3

Lordamighty · 09/03/2021 20:16

2

BonnieDundee · 09/03/2021 20:25

1

LilyPond2 · 09/03/2021 22:08

2

NeverForgetYourDreams · 09/03/2021 23:02

4

notrub · 09/03/2021 23:31

@Grannycurls

Voting 1 does not make you anti-vax.
Yes it does
notrub · 09/03/2021 23:42

3++

Any parents refusing to vaccinate their kids should have their parenting rights removed - that goes for ANY recommended childhood vaccination, not just covid as and when it becomes available for children.

All public accessible buildings and transport require vaccination for entry - that includes sports facilities, taxis, shops etc. All office except those where ALL the employees have agreed without consequence to allow unvaccinated entry. Any person required to enter stranger's homes for ANY reason also required to be vaccinated.

In short, people CAN refuse the vaccine if they wish, but they CANNOT inflict their fuckwittery on their children (anymore than they are allowed to sexually molest them), nor can they put anyone else at risk except for those who consent.

Penalty for breaking the rules, 12 months minimum sentence, doubling with every subsequent offence.

I mean if it was solely up to me, I'd just shoot the fuckers, but I'm trying to compromise.

Rachie1973 · 09/03/2021 23:55
  1. Body autonomy is important to me.

I’m vaccinated already.

Againstmachine · 09/03/2021 23:59

If you force everyone to have it, then that means everyone, Even those who have medical reasons not too, after all that's as fair as forcing people who don't want it too.

osprey24 · 10/03/2021 01:26

4

Bythemillpond · 10/03/2021 01:30
  1. The world has gone mad enough.
Bythemillpond · 10/03/2021 01:32

Any parents refusing to vaccinate their kids should have their parenting rights removed - that goes for ANY recommended childhood vaccination, not just covid as and when it becomes available for children

Even if it kills their child?

Know someone who lost a child because of a reaction to a certain childhood vaccine.

BusyLizzie61 · 10/03/2021 09:01

3 given its only until 2023.
Vaccination would not be compulsory and employees would have opt out rights as would citizens. I'd be happy not to go to certain venues if not vaccinating was my preference. Ive spent a lot of a year Shielding so anon issue if the person's choice.

Smileyoriley · 10/03/2021 09:03

3

DunravenBadger · 10/03/2021 09:06

2

BailOutChapsGingersGornSquiffy · 10/03/2021 09:14

3

Louisa7747 · 10/03/2021 09:17

Know someone who lost a child because of a reaction to a certain childhood vaccine.

@Bythemillpond

Really? What happened? I’m surprised the media didn’t pick up on this. I have never ever heard of a child having such an averse reaction to a vaccine.

RedGoldAndGreene · 10/03/2021 09:38

3 because I'd imagine that in some sectors there could be less to no work for a worker who isn't vaccinated eg cleaners in homes, carers...
I can't imagine a system where you could legitimately ask an agency to send proof that your nanny or other employee has had a vaccine though.

Definitely not 4. Not only would this fuel the conspiracy theorists but some people can't/won't be jabbed for mental health reasons which are as legitimate as physical health reasons. This is not a situation where we should be tying people down to jab them.

MrsBennetsnerves · 10/03/2021 09:59

I live in London and vaccine hesitancy is higher than it should be. I'm in favour of 2 and leaning towards 3.

Thisisconfusing · 10/03/2021 10:13
  1. I’m pro choice normally so this is with a very heavy heart . But a pandemic is Different - we have to work together on this. ALSO by having a vaccine when it’s my turn ( hopefully soon) I’m also choosing not to have put my family and their colleagues who work in NHS ( vaccines don’t always work), my family who have medical conditions who can’t be vaccinated , my vulnerable daughter, my friends CEV a daughter and vulnerable kids everywhere etc etc at risk . I know someone who was strongly opposed to vaccine/wasn’t going to get it but could not get it quick enough now they can go on holiday to Cyprus . So their principles went out of the window when it suited them. Someone else I know who has been offered but doesn’t want the vaccine asked me in all seriousness when this this was all going to be over - I replied when everyone who can has had a vaccine ( and I do appreciate that some can’t for very good reason ). Oh wait ......you don’t want one?? So how does that work.
I’m was one of the last to have the small pox vaccine . I’m happy to bear that scar . Thank goodness many like my parents got us all vaccinated . I’m not inviting a comparison between smallpox and Covid 19 - Im a microbiologist so know- it was a reference to an amazing vaccine programme. I’m just saying that vaccines really do work. Covid might not have affected you directly but I know if it has ( as it has my family ) you would want to do your bit if you could . We do have to learn to live with Covid but we are not at that stage yet . I will duck for cover on this one but I do think it’s sad that the rights of those who can’t / or aren’t protected are not respected by those prochoice. And before everyone says those vulnerable should be tucking themselves away for ever so you can choose not to be vaccinated and go in with life as normal. Just have a word with yourself . Life can turn on a sixpence- it might be you or your loved one next week/ month/ year ....
thunderandrainbows · 10/03/2021 11:10
  1. I don't think medical staff should be looking after clinically vulnerable if not vaccinated
peak2021 · 10/03/2021 17:24

You don't quite cover what I would like to see:

Allow employers to insist on vaccination for all new staff.
Allow some places to refuse service (a defined range) or insist on face coverings (no exceptions).
Have a requirement for all those travelling abroad.