Longer school days to make up for lost learning

[StitchInLime]

Source: Various newspapers, give it a Google (admittedly with a right wing lean)

Apparently one of the options being considered, nothing set in stone of course but for the purposes of discussion...

AIBU to feel both joy and sadness at the prospect of this (joy for me so I can claw back work hours, joy for children so they can claw back some school time but sadness for my teacher friends and all teachers who will need to add more hours to already heavy workload).

Absurd concept that cramming more lessons in = more learning.

No decent educator would think this was a reasonable proposal.

Smaller classes, groups going out with a TA for specific things, more TAs in a classroom- this would make all the difference.

@Flipflops85
I was answering to a post that said that teachers' children stay in childcare 7.30 to 5, and I said that it is hardly atypical, that it is probably on the lighter side for a full time working parent, and hardly a humanitarian disaster. Not all mums work hobby jobs for pin money, although, to be honest, sometimes I do have a strange feeling that the school thinks exactly that. I got a very helpful advice at the beginning of the lockdown from a teacher - "but you just need to tell your employer that you have children to look after and can't work!". Yeah, like that. Just tell them. Don't have that job anymore anyway.

@Doublefaced

.HCP who are working with Covid positive patients are wearing full PPE including vented breathing apparatus’

VENTED BREATHING APPARATUS?
What even is that and why haven’t I got any?

See this has been another common theme on these threads. The complete ignorance about what standard PPE is.
ICU/HDU staff have FFP3 masks.

In other clinical settings, including medical wards, primary care and community settings including nursing homes, covid positive patients are looked after by staff wearing PAPER surgical masks. For an AGP there are FFP3 masks available. And some settings will provide visors.
The very same masks that people can bulk buy in Boots and wear in Tescos.
It beggars belief that people still don’t understand this and seriously think that there is some magical PPE out there.

This is incredibly wrong. The risk NHS staff are under is absolutely indefensible and I know what you say is completely true because a very close family member is a doctor and says the same. It makes me so angry.

This doesn’t, however, justify the unsafe conditions of other workers, whether they’re teachers, supermarket staff, factory workers or anyone else. By saying that “it’s fine for teachers to do X because NHS staff have to do Y” is like saying both things are ok when neither are. It’s unacceptable for NHS staff to be working with the PPE they have. Unfortunately without hospitals we literally would not be functioning, but that doesn’t make it ok. I wish there was a union for NHS staff who were able to make some changes.

I know people will come back with “teachers unions are saying teachers shouldn’t work” - we aren’t responsible as individuals for the decisions of the union or the government. I didn’t follow the union’s advice to hand in the section 44 notice, but I don’t judge those who did.

We can’t keep using our own unsafe conditions as a stick to beat others with.

But @ElliFAntspoo the HCP have PPE so how can they catch it at work?
a - They are poorly trained and not wearing masks correctly.
b - If your face mask hasn't got red elastic it is not FFP3.
c - If your face mask is wet from sweat it does not perform as well.
d - Goggles are far more effective that visors, so why wear a visor when you can get goggles.
e - Respirators are far safer than face masks, so why not wear a respirator.

Also HCWs have a responsibility to look after their own health. If they believe they are in danger then don't do it. My company has a responsibility to make sure that what they ask their employers to build can be built safely. I have a responsibility to make sure that what I design can be built safely. But that does not absolve the guy on the site from looking at what he has to build and saying, this isn't safe, I'm not doing it.

If your employer will not keep you safe, it is your choice to stay and shut up, stay and provide your own PPE, or walk out the door.

valentinescmalentine

Those staff are working from home and prioritised for vaccination.

You asked why, I answered now you are adding amendments.

and

The DfE’s guidance for CEV staff in schools and colleges for September onwards argues that all school and college staff can attend the workplace provided that other safety measures are observed.

So they were not working from home.

The safety measures in September were bubbles and washing/sanitising hands (in case you don't know) you can now include masks in corridors.

I'll happily join the campaign for better PPE for NHS staff working with covid positive cases.

(At least you know they're positive. The problem in classrooms was asymptomatic pupils).

It's not a race to the bottom. School staff were not safe, hence schools closing to slow the spread. If they were safe, they'd still be open.

Before we hit the current lockdown my kids school had a tutor come in. They did small group sessions socially distanced in a well ventilated area. These focused on specific things the kids had struggled with during the first lockdown. Each group was selected based on class work they'd done over the first few weeks to see what they'd understood and what had got misinterpreted or missed.

This has been a far better idea IMO as it focuses on the gaps and the small groups mean more specific teaching.

@gypsywater

I'm front line NHS and we are wearing paper masks. I want this mythical amazing PPE please!

The NHS has it. If you don't it is because it is not needed in your NHS Trust's opinion, and they wish to keep the recourse for others. Where I live I know of warehouses full of stock. Of course that stock technically is held in bonded warehouses which means no tax is paid on it, so it is held by Government and only becomes NHS property when in is assigned and on paper tax is paid on it. Its only a paper shuffling exercise, but it keeps the money in the NHS longer than assigning the entire stock to the HNS and then having to manage the budget defecits.

Those staff are working from home and prioritised for vaccination.

Please tell my GP, he appears to have missed that memo. I am not working from home and I am not due the vaccine until the summer.

Our CV staff are in school as normal.

I have seen no thread where teachers claimed to be more at risk than HCP's. I support any NHS staff in asking for better PPE.

I have myself explained that I feel at risk for myself and colleagues in an unventilated classroom with lots of children when don't social distance. It needn't be a comparison.

hence schools closing to slow the spread. If they were safe, they'd still be open.

So schools are not safe for the staff working in them at the moment and are not safe for the keyworkers children in them then. Therefore the govenment should provide us with PPE to wear at work not just the LFTs to do once a week.

Cabbage I completely agree! PPE should be provided to school staff in schools at the moment.

CV are prioritised for vaccination.

@valentinescmalentine Excellent news, can you tell my GP as he appears not to know this. I won't be vaccinated until June-July.

I do not know about rules and risks in other sectors so I wouldn’t comment but some people feel they can make comments on rules and guidance in the education sector when they clearly don’t know them at all. I wouldn’t dismiss the concerns of someone who works in a shop as I don’t understand the risks or regulations so why do some people think they can do it about education when they clearly don’t have an understanding of what the guidance says .

@cabbagepotsbif you are CEV and have been officially told to shield you can book your vaccine online. You don’t need to wait for your GP

www.nhs.uk/book-a-coronavirus-vaccination/do-you-have-an-nhs-number

[quote Thatwentbadly]@cabbagepotsbif you are CEV and have been officially told to shield you can book your vaccine online. You don’t need to wait for your GP

www.nhs.uk/book-a-coronavirus-vaccination/do-you-have-an-nhs-number[/quote]
I didn't say I was CEV.

Those staff are working from home and prioritised for vaccination

CV school staff are in school and have been since September.

@Watchingbehindmyhands

Those staff are working from home and prioritised for vaccination

CV school staff are in school and have been since September.

I've been in school every working day (plus all of the Easter holidays and May half term) since March.

Main point of thread, primary school children in particular do not need longer hours, this will not help improve educational standards at all. They are only able to retain so much learning within a day. They may benefit from enrichment activities if provided by high quality providers, but ultimately their well being is most important and they need time to socialise which parents should be able to decide for themselves the best way to do this. Best way to improve standards, more adults in school, smaller classes or extra qualified adults in each class. This would cost though and pretty sure the government want to cheapest option.

@Italiandreams I completely agree with all you have said. The benefit of extra adults in the classroom would be the best way to support children. I've really missed my lovely volunteers this year.

@Italiandreams

Main point of thread, primary school children in particular do not need longer hours, this will not help improve educational standards at all. They are only able to retain so much learning within a day. They may benefit from enrichment activities if provided by high quality providers, but ultimately their well being is most important and they need time to socialise which parents should be able to decide for themselves the best way to do this. Best way to improve standards, more adults in school, smaller classes or extra qualified adults in each class. This would cost though and pretty sure the government want to cheapest option.

Perfect summary!

[quote Saoirse7]@yomommasmomma

Out of interest, what hours do you think would be sufficient for teacher to work?[/quote]
This is an excellent question and would get to the heart of the matter, as I suspect there is no answer to it that would satisfy some people.