Longer school days to make up for lost learning

[StitchInLime]

Source: Various newspapers, give it a Google (admittedly with a right wing lean)

Apparently one of the options being considered, nothing set in stone of course but for the purposes of discussion...

AIBU to feel both joy and sadness at the prospect of this (joy for me so I can claw back work hours, joy for children so they can claw back some school time but sadness for my teacher friends and all teachers who will need to add more hours to already heavy workload).

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

school staff seem to think that they have it harder and they are at higher risk than anyone else

They are at higher risk of infection. I don't think anyone disagrees there.

I don't think I work harder than anyone else. But to be told I don't work hard enough by someone putting in the same hours on 4x the salary is a bit much.

The actual evidence, not anecdata, is that school staff are not at any higher risk than the general working population.

This was discussed on another thread.

Lots of school staff believe they are but that is anecdata and not actual evidence.

No graph then?

If it's not OK for school staff to gang up on parents, why would it be OK for parents to gang up on school staff?

It's OK for school staff to defend themselves against a small number of parents who attack the profession. It's OK for parents to say "I'm not happy with the service from the school that my DC attend", not OK to make blanket statements like "school staff are not working harder than anyone else."

@ElliFAntspoo
As I said, I don't disagree with you. The thing is, where there is responsibility, there also has to be a reasonable freedom (including fiscal freedom) of choice to exercise that responsibility. The balance between the freedom and the responsibility is at the moment very heavily not in favour of parents in the UK.

They aren't at a higher risk of dying (mainly due to the demographics of teachers, youngish and female). Their rate of infection is higher if you look at the Sept - Nov data when schools were fully open.

‘They are at higher risk of infection. I don't think anyone disagrees there.’

Higher risk than who?
Can you link to your source?
( Not a union publication with dubious ‘science’ and random calculations of risk )

You are not being attacked though.

Why so defensive?

You said:

Every single thread on such issues quickly turns into an echo chamber from school staff falling over themselves to defensively attack Parents.

Because I know what words mean and you defend yourself if being attacked. You don’t defend yourself from...nothing.

I’m a teacher and a parent and a grandparent. I know the sheer exhaustion my son and DIL feel trying to work full time and homeschool. My heart goes out to them and to all other parents trying to cope. Some of my learners are adults in the same position. Imagine trying to work, homeschool and learn yourself! That’s why I’m working totally flexible hours to support them.

I also know that while some schools in all sectors are managing remote learning well, some aren’t. If they’re not making an effort, that’s disgraceful. But if they lack resources, if too many staff are unwell to cope, that’s different. They may be doing their best, yet still failing.

The main responsibility and culpability for the worst of the position we are in is down to Government, for years of underinvestment, repeated interference in the curriculum that wears down teachers and worst of all, not properly planning to make schools safer places or investing in technology to support learning as suggested repeatedly by education professionals and unions from the early days of the pandemic.

Well if school staff aren’t at higher risk and if the data backs that up then surely the data supports getting rid of masks and scrapping social distancing? 🤷‍♀️

And I say that as a non teacher.

But it seems unfair to tell the rest of the population to take steps to reduce infections but tell teachers they can’t.

@doublefaced The ONS data, BBC ran an article on it too.

@valentinescmalentine

and the best bit is school staff are not working any harder or at any more risk than anyone else!

When does anyone say they are? Never!

‘This was discussed on another thread.’

This was discussed on a thousand other threads. We still have teachers claiming that they’re at higher risk of infection than HCPs

@Lemonsole

The catching up that they need more than anything else is in sports, the arts, socialising, creating, hanging out with each other, Scouts, Guides and having part-time jobs. They're a vital part of teenage life, as preparation for adulthood, and this loss to them is just not being acknowledged. Teenagers need to be with their friends in multiple contexts that aren't just classrooms or guided by adults towards exams.

This this this this this this

@valentinescmalentine

schoolsweek.co.uk/fact-check-are-school-staff-at-greater-risk-from-covid-19/

This research suggests teachers were at greater risk from Sept-Nov. (But not March to July when schools had reduced pupil numbers)

[quote HercwasanEnemyofEducation]@doublefaced The ONS data, BBC ran an article on it too.[/quote]
Can you link please? There are multiple BBC/ONS articles. I’m struggling to find the one that states teachers have the highest rate of infection?

@Flipflops85
My children had attended various private nurseries pre-school and I don't remember any that closed at 5.45 pm. This is not something that would be viable as business over here. Most of them also offered extended hours for parents who work weird shifts.

I find it strange that so many posters jumped on to say "oh, but hours like that do not exist, you must be an investment banker on millions with a nanny".

I had a nanny when mine were really young, because the nursery provision for under-ones is quite sad. And no, you actually can't afford a full time nanny on a salary of £115K, unless you are avoiding taxes and paying in cash.

I haven't said they have the highest rate of infection, they are at higher risk of infection than the general public. Of course they aren't at higher risk than HCPs, but most HCPs from Sept - Nov had decent PPE. Teachers were lucky to have a mask.

Here is a MSM article about a certain group being bashed. Who wants to guess (no cheating) whether it's about A) Nurses B) Retail Staff C) Parents or D) teachers?

Article

[quote forinborin]@ElliFAntspoo
As I said, I don't disagree with you. The thing is, where there is responsibility, there also has to be a reasonable freedom (including fiscal freedom) of choice to exercise that responsibility. The balance between the freedom and the responsibility is at the moment very heavily not in favour of parents in the UK.[/quote]
Again, I have to disagree. Fiscal freedom is merely an expectation and for each unto their own means.

Some parents with 100K incomes have greater fiscal freedom than others with 20K incomes. Some households have two parents, others do not. These are not things we are entitled to or have the right to expect society to provide us with.

And access to money, or not, has no bearing on parental responsibility.

@Doublefaced

‘This was discussed on another thread.’

This was discussed on a thousand other threads. We still have teachers claiming that they’re at higher risk of infection than HCPs

😁

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/a4155531-Are-teachers-more-at-risk-from-covid?msgid=104395135#104395135

Here is the other thread I meant.

Note that lots of Teachers do not appear to understand the evidence and instead continue to believe it’s not safe for them or all to be in school or whatever.

Meanwhile increasing numbers of dc of all ages are developing diagnosable mental health conditions because they are not attending school.

How about bankers and management consultants working longer hours, paying more tax and using that to fund more better paid teachers?

valentinescmalentine

Your comprehension skills are lacking.

I am "bashing" twats4themselves as they are a political bunch of fickwits that don't give a shiny shit about children, parents, teachers, school support staff or education.

@Doublefaced

‘This was discussed on another thread.’

This was discussed on a thousand other threads. We still have teachers claiming that they’re at higher risk of infection than HCPs

Oooooo a thread where teachers claimed that they're at higher risk of infection than HCPs? I bet that was an interesting thread - do you have a link please?

valentinescmalentine

Note that lots of Teachers do not appear to understand the evidence and instead continue to believe it’s not safe for them or all to be in school or whatever.

Note that some people don't understand or care about the discrepancy in the statistics.

They should just cancel summer holidays and have them in for the rest of the year now

@FrippEnos

valentinescmalentine

Your comprehension skills are lacking.

I am "bashing" twats4themselves as they are a political bunch of fickwits that don't give a shiny shit about children, parents, teachers, school support staff or education.

To be fair I don’t know anything about that organisation!

@valentinescmalentine The stats are clear from Sept - Nov, the teacher infection rate is above the infection rate of the population.

The long term health implications on people with long covid are horrible. 3 teachers under 40 have all got long covid at my school. Out of 100ish staff I think that is a lot.