Longer school days to make up for lost learning

[StitchInLime]

Source: Various newspapers, give it a Google (admittedly with a right wing lean)

Apparently one of the options being considered, nothing set in stone of course but for the purposes of discussion...

AIBU to feel both joy and sadness at the prospect of this (joy for me so I can claw back work hours, joy for children so they can claw back some school time but sadness for my teacher friends and all teachers who will need to add more hours to already heavy workload).

@HercwasanEnemyofEducation

I haven't said they have the highest rate of infection, they are at higher risk of infection than the general public. Of course they aren't at higher risk than HCPs, but most HCPs from Sept - Nov had decent PPE. Teachers were lucky to have a mask.

What do you imagine PPE for HCPs outside ICU to look like?

Clue. It’s been discussed extensively in the thousand other threads.
And with regards higher risk if infection, if you care to do some research you’ll find that there are MANY other sectors ( inc retail/security staff) who have significantly higher rates of infection. The difference is that their unions aren’t constantly publishing shit science and misleading figures to whip up fear and ensure that schools stay shut.

@FrippEnos

valentinescmalentine

Note that lots of Teachers do not appear to understand the evidence and instead continue to believe it’s not safe for them or all to be in school or whatever.

Note that some people don't understand or care about the discrepancy in the statistics.

Parents care about the health and wellbeing of dc.

Some school staff are terrified to be in school, why is that?

@CoronaIsWatching

They should just cancel summer holidays and have them in for the rest of the year now

I will be taking my children to Spain for 3 weeks (unless my holiday is cancelled). I’m sure they will prefer 3 weeks of sun and fun than being in school. And I say that as a teacher too.

@Doublefaced

‘This was discussed on another thread.’

This was discussed on a thousand other threads. We still have teachers claiming that they’re at higher risk of infection than HCPs

Swings and roundabout. It depends on the context.

Teachers are teaching children who potentially are carrying Covid without wearing any PPE (masks included) nor having social distancing measures in place:

HCP who are working with Covid positive patients are wearing full PPE including vented breathing apparatus.

Those who are working with non-covid cases are still wearing PPE.

Hospital staff are more likely to be exposed to Covid, however if they are there is less chance of them contracting it due to measures in place.

Teachers are less likely to be exposed to Covid, however, they have no protection in place and should they come in contact with it are more likely to catch it.

@CoronaIsWatching

They should just cancel summer holidays and have them in for the rest of the year now

I wonder how much this would cost.

@CoronaIsWatching

They should just cancel summer holidays and have them in for the rest of the year now

Nope-my kids are learning full time now and will need their holiday when the summer comes.

@Doublefaced

‘This was discussed on another thread.’

This was discussed on a thousand other threads. We still have teachers claiming that they’re at higher risk of infection than HCPs

Any teacher who thinks they’re at higher risk than HCPs is surely nuts. I haven’t seen that said myself, but apparently you have.

It’s not really about who is at more risk anyway, it’s about the fact that all workplaces should be made as safe as possible for all workers.

My friend who is an ICU nurse thinks I’m at higher risk than her because she has full PPE and the patients aren’t breathing out into the air. I think that’s mad and absolutely can’t be true. I saw an article recently that said NHS staff are at even more risk than we originally realised.

These conversations about who is and is not more at risk ignore the valid points about workers being placed in unsafe working conditions. This should be a conversation which encompasses everyone who is in a public facing role with few mitigations.

valentinescmalentine

To be fair I don’t know anything about that organisation!

I get the feeling that this sentence could be adjusted to fit with many points in this discussion.

@Doublefaced

‘They are at higher risk of infection. I don't think anyone disagrees there.’

Higher risk than who?
Can you link to your source?
( Not a union publication with dubious ‘science’ and random calculations of risk )

Higher risk than the general risk level in society. Primarily because they come into contact with the children of frontline workers. Front line workers are at greater risk than the general public because they come into contact with people with the virus. Direct contact, and in a sustained manner. They have a greater risk of being infected, and when they are infected they received a higher inoculum. A higher initial does means a faster and more sustained attack. The virus finds it easier to get a foothold and overwhelm the immune system.

Anyways, these nurses, care workers, orderlies, etc. have children, and they pass what they get at work onto their children, and whilst for the most part children only get a runny nose or a cough, or remain asymptomatic, there is a higher risk of infecting teachers if those teachers do not take sufficient precautions, or are prevented from doing so by the schools.

Bottom line though is, you can only get infected if you let in through the holes in your face. So protect yourself, and if your employer refuses to allow you to protect yourself, you have choices to make.

@CoronaIsWatching

They should just cancel summer holidays and have them in for the rest of the year now

Lol

I'm not paid for the Summer holidays so anyone who thinks I will work through my holidays can think again.

This was discussed on a thousand other threads. We still have teachers claiming that they’re at higher risk of infection than HCPs

Really? Where did you see that actual claim?

It’s possibly true, though, depending on the circumstances of the HCP and the teacher, and could hypothetically be so in when schools and colleges return. Compare my exposure to infection working with 12 non socially distanced adults -who I’ve never met before- from different workplaces for six hours a day for four days in a poorly ventilated space with no mandated face coverings, with that of the lovely dental nurse in full PPE who attended on my visit to the dentist two weeks ago. I had filled in a questionnaire beforehand, quarantined my belongings in a box in the waiting room and had my temperature taken - oh, and she’s been vaccinated. The room has sophisticated ventilation and their procedures are designed to minimise aerosol generation. I was in there for 20 minutes, and they have time gaps between patients.

Blanket claims are always unwise, but individual circumstances vary.

‘
My friend who is an ICU nurse thinks I’m at higher risk than her because she has full PPE and the patients aren’t breathing out into the air. ’

Infection rates in ICU staff are slightly lower than those on non ICU/HDU settings.

My friend who is an ICU nurse thinks I’m at higher risk than her because she has full PPE and the patients aren’t breathing out into the air. I think that’s mad and absolutely can’t be true. I saw an article recently that said NHS staff are at even more risk than we originally realised.
You are probably right, and she is probably wrong, not least because she will be exposed to a higher initial dose of the virus if she is infected. It is a little disturbing that an ICU nurse hasn't quite got a handle on the environment she is working in. I hope she stays safe.

Every HCP I speak to also thinks that it is crazy the level of exposure secondary teachers were at. Care workers were astounded I saw ~150 students a week with no mask on and no social distancing.

*Higher risk than the general risk level in society.
Primarily because they come into contact with the children of frontline workers. Front line workers are at greater risk than the general public because they come into contact with people with the virus. Direct contact, and in a sustained manner. They have a greater risk of being infected, and when they are infected they received a higher inoculum. A higher initial does means a faster and more sustained attack. The virus finds it easier to get a foothold and overwhelm the immune system.

Anyways, these nurses, care workers, orderlies, etc. have children, and they pass what they get at work onto their children, and whilst for the most part children only get a runny nose or a cough, or remain asymptomatic, there is a higher risk of infecting teachers if those teachers do not take sufficient precautions, or are prevented from doing so by the schools.

Bottom line though is, you can only get infected if you let in through the holes in your face. So protect yourself, and if your employer refuses to allow you to protect yourself, you have choices to make.*

But @ElliFAntspoo the HCP have PPE so how can they catch it at work?

valentinescmalentine

Some school staff are terrified to be in school, why is that?

The ones that I know are CV or CEV.

But again this is something that you don't know.

@forinborin

Seriously, In my town they close at 5:45pm - I know because it’s was a rush to get there for closing time. I’m up north though, maybe that makes a difference.

There’s one i’ve found that says until 8pm - but covers it by saying “dependent on local demand” which suggests it’s not that common (it’s southern)

Even most London nurseries seem to be closed by 6:15pm - I googled ones in the wealthy bits too.

You said ‘over here’ so maybe you’re not in the U.K. anyway?

PP said: Maybe the twats4themselves peoples army could do it for free?

I said:

They wouldn't be allowed anywhere near my children..maybe they could empty the bins and clean the toilets if they could manage to do it to the required standards of course

@valentinescmalentine said and yet more parent bashing.

Eh? I'm not a teacher. Love to know how you think it's parent bashing?

.HCP who are working with Covid positive patients are wearing full PPE including vented breathing apparatus’

VENTED BREATHING APPARATUS?
What even is that and why haven’t I got any?

See this has been another common theme on these threads. The complete ignorance about what standard PPE is.
ICU/HDU staff have FFP3 masks.

In other clinical settings, including medical wards, primary care and community settings including nursing homes, covid positive patients are looked after by staff wearing PAPER surgical masks. For an AGP there are FFP3 masks available. And some settings will provide visors.
The very same masks that people can bulk buy in Boots and wear in Tescos.
It beggars belief that people still don’t understand this and seriously think that there is some magical PPE out there.

@FrippEnos

valentinescmalentine

Some school staff are terrified to be in school, why is that?

The ones that I know are CV or CEV.

But again this is something that you don't know.

Those staff are working from home and prioritised for vaccination.

I'm front line NHS and we are wearing paper masks. I want this mythical amazing PPE please!

You said ‘over here’ so maybe you’re not in the U.K. anyway?
In the UK, South East just outside London proper. I don't know about wealthier boroughs and how childcare provision is structured there, as I am not in one.

So you only know your local nurseries? You weren’t basing your comment about it being normal to open beyond 5;45pm on any actual information?

Only CEV people are working from home

@Italiandreams

Only CEV people are working from home

CV are prioritised for vaccination.