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Longer school days to make up for lost learning

999 replies

StitchInLime · 06/02/2021 10:52

Source: Various newspapers, give it a Google (admittedly with a right wing lean)

Apparently one of the options being considered, nothing set in stone of course but for the purposes of discussion...

AIBU to feel both joy and sadness at the prospect of this (joy for me so I can claw back work hours, joy for children so they can claw back some school time but sadness for my teacher friends and all teachers who will need to add more hours to already heavy workload).

OP posts:
MrsHerculePoirot · 07/02/2021 11:40

@Kokeshi123 no-one is saying that there won’t be gaps. As teachers we are more than aware of the ever widening gap. When we return to school we will work our arses off to address that. The same as we do every single day.

The OP is suggesting longer school days, and others have suggested having school during holidays. Neither of these is what these kids need.

We already run intervention programmes, catch up opportunities etc in normal times. Just blanket extension by school hours/into holidays as suggested is just not the answer.

ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown · 07/02/2021 11:40

@forinborin

As a teacher my children are already in wraparound from 7.30-5pm and that’s with a 9-3.30 teaching day. But this is normal, even on the light side for a working parent, no? Mine were in childcare/school 7 to 7 before the pandemic, and I am not a teacher.
This intrigued me - there has never been childcare (of the nursery/childminder variety) available where I live before 7.30 and after 6. I must have looked at every nursery in the city when I had my first dc. The times seemed to be set around people working 9-5 with a shortish commute. If you're in the nanny bracket things will be different obviously.
chocolateisavegetable · 07/02/2021 11:40

You weren't making a general point - you made a statement that "school staff are not working any harder or at any more risk than anyone else!" and I have asked for you to provide evidence. I haven't claimed that school staff are , so have no need to provide a graph. I'm not taking it personally as I'm not a teacher, but I'm extremely grateful for your touching concern.

borntobequiet · 07/02/2021 11:40

Every single thread on such issues quickly turns into an echo chamber from school staff falling over themselves to defensively attack Parents.

It’s a bit rich to criticise people for defending themselves.

valentinescmalentine · 07/02/2021 11:40

@Saoirse7

I was in a thread this day last week with someone with the EXACT same teacher bashing rhetoric as *@valentinescmalentine* If that is the same person the a) their script hasn't changed and b)they also has minimal support in that thread too.
Because that thread was dominated by school staff in the exact same way.
valentinescmalentine · 07/02/2021 11:42

@borntobequiet

Every single thread on such issues quickly turns into an echo chamber from school staff falling over themselves to defensively attack Parents.

It’s a bit rich to criticise people for defending themselves.

You are not being attacked though.

Why so defensive?

Thislittlefinger123 · 07/02/2021 11:43

Terrible idea. I get that some children will be behind, but you can't just expect children to concentrate for an extra hour or two a day, they need downtime

ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown · 07/02/2021 11:43

If there aren't enough non-school staff posting to back up your view, what could that possibly mean? Hmm

chocolateisavegetable · 07/02/2021 11:43

If you don't have your own graph, could you share the one that Herc sent you?

year5teacher · 07/02/2021 11:43

@yomommasmomma

To answer some question, I am not a troll, I have been in MN a long time and I am giving my opinion.

I think teachers should be paid a lot more than they currently are, to reflect the importance of their jobs.

I get paid £115k per annum, which I know is a lot more than teachers and that's why I think they should be paid more.

I do think that teachers are capable of working longer hours to cover a temporary national crisis and support the nations children's learning. I don't think they should have to do longer hours forever but for a period of time they can do it and cope with the sacrifices it will bring. I know they can because I do it myself.

And yes I am very actively involved in educating my children (obviously currently I am home schooling fully) and agree that the responsibility to educate them is mine.

LOL. Ok, so you’re expecting me, who earns £25k, to up my hours to start essentially actively working from 7-10pm every day because you (apparently) do it? Do one. Grin
Saoirse7 · 07/02/2021 11:45

@yomommasmomma

Out of interest, what hours do you think would be sufficient for teacher to work?

CallmeAngelina · 07/02/2021 11:45

As the vast, vast majority of posters (including teachers) on this site are parents, then it kind of levels up the playing field.
Criticising U4T is not about parent-bashing; it's about having a serious issue with the really worrying effect they have had on government policy towards this pandemic.

And I certainly wouldn't say that wraparound care from 7.30am 'til 5 is "normal" or "on the light side." Out of 450 kids in my school, I would say under half a dozen do those hours in our breakfast/afterschool club.

ElliFAntspoo · 07/02/2021 11:46

[quote forinborin]@TheReluctantPhoenix
I was answering to the post where a PP pontificated about the children's education being solely the responsibility of parents, with teachers being responsible... for what exactly, I am not sure I got that bit from their post. And I actually agreed with her. I personally see close to zero utility from the English state schooling system, outside the "free" childcare and socialisation - but at the tax rate they effectively charge, it is still quite expensive as childcare goes. Maybe it changes at the secondary level, I have limited visibility about that.

My personal contribution "to fighting a pandemic" is significantly in excess of £2500, please don't let that bother you too much.[/quote]
As I see it, parents are solely responsible for ensuring that their children are fed, educated and protected. This is an absolute. We never get to walk away and pretend like it is not our responsibility.

We may choose to employ others to feed our children and they may fail us. We may choose to employ organisations to protect our children and they may fail us. We may choose to employ government to educate our children and they may fail us.

But the bottom line is, it is all still our responsibility, and we cannot walk away from it just because we believe we have passed that responsibility to others. And our children will still look to us and ask themselves, did my parents do everything they could, and did they put me first.

I for one will put my child's safety, food and education (in that order) above all else.

forinborin · 07/02/2021 11:46

I bet when you lift your child it is the end of your working day though. A teacher will most likely have at least two hours to do in the evening as well.
All these teachers who work 90 hours weeks somehow never ended up in my friendship circles. Maybe they exist, I don't know. And no, my job used to continue well after the children are in bed. I know, it is unfathomable to imagine that someone else but the teachers could work hard.

Well, apart from that I have no job now, because, you know, the schools are closed for an unknown period and parents with small children are really not on the top of the pile of candidates.

Fatas · 07/02/2021 11:46

@yomommasmomma wow this explains your attitude. Of course you will work the longer hours, you get paid 115000. Pay me 115000 and I’ll gladly work the extra hours.🙄 But not for the money we get.

Doublefaced · 07/02/2021 11:47

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown

If there aren't enough non-school staff posting to back up your view, what could that possibly mean? Hmm
Because people simply can’t be arsed with the Daffodil Daffodil, the anger and the viciousness that spills forth when the teacher klaxon goes off?
MrsHerculePoirot · 07/02/2021 11:47

@valentinescmalentine So parents are only allowed concerns that you have approved?

I would LOVE to hear hear how you have extrapolated that from my posts.... please do explain.

I’ve said that some parents are concerned but that the answer is not blanket extension of the school day or into the holidays.

I’d be very interested to hear:
a) how that is parent bashing?
b) how that translates into parents can only have concerns I have approved?

It’s actually the most bonkers posting I’ve seen for a while, both last thread and here. Literally all you do is accuse any teacher of ‘Parent’ bashing... it’s a bit, erm, weird tbh....

Also yet again accusing teachers of saying they work harder and longer than others. Which again is a blatant lie. It’s definitely odd behaviour....

gypsywater · 07/02/2021 11:48

Dont forget all the "homeschooling" yomomma is doing for her one and four year old Grin People do talk utter shit on here.

valentinescmalentine · 07/02/2021 11:49

@chocolateisavegetable

You weren't making a general point - you made a statement that "school staff are not working any harder or at any more risk than anyone else!" and I have asked for you to provide evidence. I haven't claimed that school staff are , so have no need to provide a graph. I'm not taking it personally as I'm not a teacher, but I'm extremely grateful for your touching concern.
In general there is a lot of nonsense on here that school staff seem to think that they have it harder and they are at higher risk than anyone else, when that simply isn’t true.

Some parents are fed up of hearing it and school staff seem to think it is ok to gang up on parents with that opinion when it’s not ok to do that.

For what it’s worth I don’t agree with the catch up stuff because this was mentioned last year for summer and it didn’t happen for various reasons it’s difficult to believe it is serious anyway.

forinborin · 07/02/2021 11:51

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown
The childminder covers 7.00 to 8.45 shift (the school breakfast club opens at 7.30) and the evening provision from 3.30 to 7 is the after-school club. The clubs are ran by a private organisation (collecting children from several schools). The usual commute for parents working in Central London here is in the region of 90 minutes, so the provision answers the demand.

gypsywater · 07/02/2021 11:51

Ps I'm not school staff but cant stand the manipulative bullshit levelled at teachers by parents who clearly just cant be fucked to take responsibility for their kids and wank on about how OTHERS should be "helping vulnerable kids" having clearly never volunteered a single hour of their own time to do so. Its manipulative twaddle.

HercwasanEnemyofEducation · 07/02/2021 11:52

school staff seem to think that they have it harder and they are at higher risk than anyone else

They are at higher risk of infection. I don't think anyone disagrees there.

I don't think I work harder than anyone else. But to be told I don't work hard enough by someone putting in the same hours on 4x the salary is a bit much.

MrsHerculePoirot · 07/02/2021 11:53

“In general there is a lot of nonsense on here that school staff seem to think that they have it harder and they are at higher risk than anyone else, when that simply isn’t true.

Some parents are fed up of hearing it and school staff seem to think it is ok to gang up on parents with that opinion when it’s not ok to do that.”

Still waiting for evidence any school staff have said this actually anywhere ever 🤣🤣🤣

Kokeshi123 · 07/02/2021 11:54

Well.... the poster in question seemed to suggesting that there will not be gaps, or at least not in terms of academics. She works in a university, so maybe she assumes that all kids will be independently working and engaged meaning that all teachers have to do is provide the content! In reality. I think we all know that it's not that simple. A lot of kids are basically doing nothing right now.

No, I am not arguing for the teaching in summer holidays thing, as teachers have been working during this period (how much learning has been going in is another matter, but the work itself by teachesr has been happening). Agree with a previous poster that targeted tutoring (yes, paid, obviously) is the only way out of this mess.

The UK has really cocked this up, frankly. First time the schools were closed, they officially suspended the curriculum.... but some schools did a fair bit of provision anyway, and some didn't, and variable laptop and internet access and the fact that the UK does not seem to have any standardized textbooks meant that the amount of learning was really really different from school to school and from child to child. This time the curriculum is not suspended, schools are told You Must Teach, but the laptop etc. provision is still not really there, and this time round employers have little patience with parents and are telling parents to focus on their jobs.

Kids are going to go into schools with gaps the size of the Grand Canyon. My nephews have engaged with a full timetable will be fine. Other kids are basically playing PlayStation most of the day. The fact that teachers have been teaching means that asking teachers to teach over the summer is now impossible. The fact that SOME kids have been engaging with lots of learning and keeping up to date, means that any attempt to keep the kids in over the summer will go down like a cup of cold sick among those parents who will point out that their kids have kept up just fine, why can't they have a summer holiday?

The schools in the UK really should have adopted a clear "one-way-or-the-other" policy.

EITHER they should have required full teaching and provision from the start, including that first closure last spring, and gone absolutely gung ho with getting the devices and a centralized online school curriuclum out there (or better still, used the BBC and put the lessons on TV, meaning no new devices or WiFi is even required)....

OR they should have done what we mostly did in Japan: shut schools COMPLETELY, with not even key worker kids coming in, told the teachers to basically take their holiday now (the teachers at our school did not really do anything during the closure apart from printing out a holiday homework "pack" for each kid), and made it clear to everyone that school will be in over most of the summer instead, plus some extra hours here and there, until all the usual curriculum hours have been made up for.

Either of these solutions would have worked, just about (without increasing teachers' working hours beyond the normal level). The UK situation is a mess!

Flipflops85 · 07/02/2021 11:54

I’ve worked in private nurseries. I’ve never worked in one that provided care beyond 6pm and my own child’s closed at 5:45pm.

Childminders near me wouldn’t do beyond 6pm either. I understand that people may pay a nanny 7-7 but this tends to be associated with people on higher incomes.

If I’d have paid for 12 hour days, I wouldn’t have had any teacher salary left.

Those hours are not typical of my family on similar wages (25k to 35k) perhaps they are for investment bankers etc but as we’ve established they earn 115k per year (and are able to home school toddlers whilst simultaneously working 15 hour days, and volunteering for several charities too. - I genuinely take my hat off to that super mum)

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