Longer school days to make up for lost learning

[StitchInLime]

Source: Various newspapers, give it a Google (admittedly with a right wing lean)

Apparently one of the options being considered, nothing set in stone of course but for the purposes of discussion...

AIBU to feel both joy and sadness at the prospect of this (joy for me so I can claw back work hours, joy for children so they can claw back some school time but sadness for my teacher friends and all teachers who will need to add more hours to already heavy workload).

The problem with demanding teachers do more hours are a) state education already runs on a lot of good will and most teachers far exceed their contracted hours
The vast majority of teachers are already at breaking point. Imo if they are asked to work a significant number of extra hours, many of them will just quit. It’ll be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. Also, an extra hour isn’t an extra hour - by the time the teacher does the additional prep and marking it’s an extra 2-3 hours.

I won’t be doing it and I can’t see it happening.

I think this is a dreadful idea. Does the DFE understand that young children have a finite attention span? Surely after all of us parents homeschooling over the past year, it’s become very that this is the case. We cannot cram in extra learning after one of the longest schooldays in Europe for primary - age children.
I think we should have the option to allow any child to repeat the year. They haven’t just missed out on learning but on a year of childhood . It breaks my heart that my year 4 child is hurtling towards secondary school without having experienced the relative low pressure of Primary school and all the fun & friendship that goes with it.

I definitely think there’s this weird thing where teachers are expected to give up everything for their jobs. Like - no, I don’t want to work extra hours on top of what I already do. Saying that shouldn’t be any kind of judgement on my character - people are allowed to say that in other jobs! I have a life and teaching is not the only thing in it.

My kids have worked incredibly hard, there is no way on Earth I’d agree to holding them back a year. They’d be sacrificing an entire years salary for a start. Why should they have to repeat all the work they’ve done?

And actually, the most important thing is this wouldn’t benefit children.

'I'm surprised so many are against and appear horrified about this suggestion.'
Teachers know that it won't work. If volunteers are sufficient, then why pay qualified teachers to be in the classroom at all?

@CrackOpenTheGin That’s not true. My children have always done longer hours (private prep). Most children are a year ahead, some 2. They do a massive amount of sport and creative activities too. A longer day can be a good thing if it’s not just maths and english.

My kids didn't start school till year 4, they probably did an hour a day school work, occasionally might do extra if they were keen on something. In some subjects they were 3 years ahead, in others a year ahead. The school reading test went up to 13 and DD was off the scale. You can achieve alot in a focused hour or two a day.

They'd done loads of other things, dancing, swimming, tennis, brownies or cubs, First Communion and Confirmation classes with our priest.

This won't happen. Even if it did, teachers won't be staffing it. In case people have failed to notice, teachers currently have double their normal workload and have families and children of their own. They aren't robots who can just be programmed to work the hours to suit parents. A better option would be to repeat some school years but that would be far too messy to implement.

I’m teaching my full timetable on Teams so I won’t be taking part in this. Attendance is good and the kids are doing well. I did a GCSE exam with my year 10s last week and the vast majority are on track or exceeding their target. My kids are working hard and they don’t need extra hours. Plus teachers have agreed working hours (1265 a year) so there aren’t enough spare hours in the budget so the government would have to pay more and they won’t be able to.

Yes, right, extend children's days so they're knackered and can't concentrate and have reduced leisure time to socialise, that's the way to build up their confidence and improve results.

Children at independent senior schools already have 8.30-5.30 days, plus Saturday school. Where would the extra hours in the day and week come from?

[quote FizzyPepsi]@Taikoo

I don't expect the unions to cooperate with this. But equally it shouldn't be a choice- it should be a clear instruction from government that it is teachers' civic duty to support catch up programmes.

Unions or teachers unwilling to co-operate should be subject to termination and the imposition of new contracts.[/quote]
They must do their civic duty or they're sacked? Don't worry, thanks to ignorant parents like you and a year of appalling mishandling by the Govt and constant attacks from the right-wing supporting media, you won't have to concern yourself with sacking teachers, because it's predicted many are planning to quit the profession in the coming months and there was already a recruitment crisis before this even started. There are certain dates throughout the year when they can hand in their notice to avoid disrupting learning and the next one is Feb 28 – just wait to see how many resignations there are in your child's school. Perhaps all you armchair educators who clearly think you can do a better job than your DC's children can sign up for teacher training to make up the shortfall?

I mean, DC's teachers not children! Blame angry-typing.

This is an absolutely crazy idea if applied to primary schools. It would not benefit the children at all educationally, as the day is long enough for their concentration spans as it is. I am a teacher and I would not want my Year 2 DS having a longer day.

However, if the money was invested in high quality sports, drama, art and social opportunities, that would be great.

@Useruseruserusee this is exactly what would be beneficial. Sadly I think the government would not fund it, but would make far more sense than the tutoring program.

“Catch up” on what?

The entire cohort has lost the same amount of education. Just adjust the exam content and assess them on the topics they have learned. The outcome will be the same in terms of overall assessment.

The only caveat to this is the kids who were already on the wrong side of the attainment gap, throw bundles of cash at helping these kids both in terms of poverty and education - which we should have done long ago.

@Weaveron - indie schools do what they want anyway? It won't apply to those who have been able to purchase themselves the privilege of a private eduction.

If this happens this will be a purely political performative action. It isn't in anyway child or education-centred, it's to look like the govt. are doing something. Possibly with extra bonus of making teachers/their unions look unreasonable.

Please no more lessons but it would be great if schools are encouraged/ pushed to make sure there is a lot of after school clubs/ sports provision. Our children need socialising and exercise and parents need to do their own thing. Teachers need a break.

They must do their civic duty or they're sacked? Don't worry, thanks to ignorant parents like you and a year of appalling mishandling by the Govt and constant attacks from the right-wing supporting media, you won't have to concern yourself with sacking teachers, because it's predicted many are planning to quit the profession in the coming months and there was already a recruitment crisis before this even started. There are certain dates throughout the year when they can hand in their notice to avoid disrupting learning and the next one is Feb 28 – just wait to see how many resignations there are in your child's school. Perhaps all you armchair educators who clearly think you can do a better job than your DC's children can sign up for teacher training to make up the shortfall?

@ThelmaNotLouise

Just because some other people may have a different view to you does not make them ignorant, there is no need for such insults.

Why not resign before now, if things are indeed so intolerable for you, this mass resignations threat is probably just going to be like the section 44 malarkey all over again!

As a Year 6 teacher there is a reason that I have refused to run before or after school boosters for years. It doesn’t work! The schools that do these types of things are the ones struggling with results. It can all be done in school hours of you teach well and children work hard. If they aren’t working hard or you aren’t teaching well enough then more of this won’t help!!

When my children are school age I will not consent to any of this hot housing - which is what this will be as well. Give schools the funding to use for extra teachers, in the school day, small group focussed learning but for goodness sake don’t make the children hate school!!

The idea is fraught with problems and I can’t see it happening.

It wouldn't be as simple as bringing in a handful of Mums and unemployed supply teachers for the late afternoon. If you're keeping an entire school open for another 3 hours, you'd need an entire school's worth of teaching staff, TAs, First Aiders, Receptionists, Cleaning supervisors, SLT on site, another member of the site team, another IT manager, an additional safeguarding person. You'd need all of these volunteers to have full access to all the personal data of every student. They'd need to access the behavioural system and have people there to escalate to/enforce sanctions the following day. The First Aiders would need access to all the medical data, safety plans for students who have previously self harmed, knowledge of who is Looked After. And you'd need a full handover ever day. You'd need security passes, key fobs, photocopying cards, system log ins, email addresses.

They'd also have to be accountable for any issues with standards in behaviour and academic achievement. After all, if you're leaving your kid in school for another 15 hours a week, you want them to not be taught things incorrectly. You want them to be taught what they need to pass the boards' criteria.

The simple logistics behind it are prohibitive. And the cost.

Oh, plus as this Covid thing isn't about to disappear, you'd also be introducing another 50-100 contacts into the premises each day. I'm sure the 'volunteers' would be slightly more difficult to find in such large numbers, too - they'd need to be able to afford to live without pay, not have childcare costs of their own, be prepared to work in the toughest schools as well as the best - and if you're a volunteer, there's significantly less reason to be in a place where the buildings are falling apart and behaviour is far beyond the odd tut and 'but she's doing it too!' than somebody who takes it because they've got bills to pay.

I can see TeachFirst wanting to get in on it. And some of the other Free School/Academies being interested, as long as they get paid what they will determine to be the Market Rate. But I don't think it is actually feasible.

@storminabuttercup
Why are some school staff so reluctant to do that bit extra?
Staff have been doing way more than a little bit extra as you put it, all the way through lockdown since March, there’s physically no more time to give. Don’t be so goody.

The thing I find baffling is that there is so much disparity of support between schools.
I spoke to a friend today whose daughter is having live zoom lessons with teaching , marking , feedback continuously from9 until 3.15 ( minus lunch hour) and the teacher can see what they are doing at home and will help individually as they would do in class.
Then some schools seem to have very little contact, parents get given sheets for children to print out, no teaching input and parents have to teach and mark themselves.
It seems very strange that there is no minimum standards as to what schools have to provide and good schools are giving such a better level of input and support. Lockdown is not new stuff now , we have been in and out of lockdown for nearly a year and it is surprising that support isn’t more uniform.

It nearly feels like a lottery with school provision .
I am not teacher bashing here, I think many are doing a fantastic job and so are the TAs many who don’t get much credit for what they do. This is an observation and possibly on the wrong thread, so apologies for that.