Longer school days to make up for lost learning

[StitchInLime]

Source: Various newspapers, give it a Google (admittedly with a right wing lean)

Apparently one of the options being considered, nothing set in stone of course but for the purposes of discussion...

AIBU to feel both joy and sadness at the prospect of this (joy for me so I can claw back work hours, joy for children so they can claw back some school time but sadness for my teacher friends and all teachers who will need to add more hours to already heavy workload).

Why are some school staff so reluctant to do that bit extra?
Teachers are already doing “that bit extra”. They’re doing 60 hours instead of 40, and have been for years. It’s impossible for them to do any more. Any additional hours will have to be staffed by agency staff (and where will the money come from?) or volunteers (and do you want your kids taught by unqualified randoms?). I just don’t see how it can work.

Teachers cannot be key workers if they are able to not attend work for 18 months+.

I'm sorry to hear your specific children's school has been so poor. Are you considering moving them to a school where you can trust the school? I assume you've gone down the proper channels to discover why your children haven't received what the GOVERNMENT have told them to do so.

However, not all schools are like your experience. Infact many are providing a good, albeit distanced, education for their children. The teachers at my school have all attended school full time since March. Almost all worked in school through 3 weeks of their holidays in April and May. They have PPA time where they can work from home - this is .5-1 day a week depending on if they have management roles.

I admit that I haven't been in school during lockdowns. Due to being vulnerable I have followed the advice of my medical consultants and Gp and am fortunate to have a headteacher who cares about their staff. My school role means that I can work effectively from home - infact during periods of remote learning I am better to be home as I have better tech and better WiFi, and my role means the other staff are supported more effectively especially when in class. However, like many workers who are wfh, I am doing longer hours than ever before. There's no real distinction between home and school now and my working hours are huge. I'll be working all afternoon today. I rarely finish before 6.30-7pm week days, and work during the holidays at present.

I did go into school full time in the autumn term with no SD, no masks, nothing bar an open window. I'm CV but the government still expected me to be in full time with no protective measures. I was teaching over 200 children weekly with no SDing, I did catch covid, was in hospital and was off for 7 weeks. And I worked throughout that sickness, from home. Heck, I even answered parent queries from a hospital bed!

So yeah, don't really buy your whole teachers not working rubbish!

@Doublefaced

Why are there countless threads where teachers claim that every single teacher in the country works 60 hours+ a week? When so many if MNers who are teachers, married to teachers, closely related to teachers, best mates with teachers know that it simply isn’t true? As I always say on these threads, there are excellent teachers. Motivated, enthusiastic and caring. There are others who are currently doing the absolute minimum. And there is NOTHING that repeated threads on MN claiming the 60+ week will do to persuade those of us who know different.

Because it is the motivated, enthusiastic teachers that will be asked to do the extra.

The ones doing the bare minimum will continue to do so.

Same as in any other job.

But also, teachers traditionally don’t get paid overtime, eg school trips doing holidays, coming in for results day etc... so there is a mistrust that extra hours will be compensated.

I can't for a second think that this will happen. At least, teaching unions won't agree. Ditto the shorter holidays thing.

[quote FizzyPepsi]@Taikoo

I don't expect the unions to cooperate with this. But equally it shouldn't be a choice- it should be a clear instruction from government that it is teachers' civic duty to support catch up programmes.

Unions or teachers unwilling to co-operate should be subject to termination and the imposition of new contracts.[/quote]
What a load of shit.

Can we instead say that it is the parent’s fault for not keeping their child on top of their school work and say that they have failed in their civic duty? What’s the punishment for them then? Ridiculous

I’m surprised at how early some secondary schools finish, they’re over before 3 ( and don’t start early).
Mine are being given possibly more work than they have when in school so they really shouldn’t be ‘behind’

And where does the 18 months come from?

Schools closed to some children in March. That's not even a year ago, let alone an extra 6 months on top.

Last year’s GREAT SUMMER CATCH-UP didn’t happen either.

The govt wanting to pretend to care about kids without actually sorting out the real issues in schools.

Desperate to get kids back into schools where they won’t have a qualified maths or science teacher, where GCSE and A-level subjects on offer have been gradually reduced over the years due to budget cuts, where the school buildings are crumbling due to lack of investment, where support for pupils with SEN is non-existent, where kids with severe mental health issues can’t access CAMHs.

If they care, that needs fixing. Let’s get our kids back to schools that are not on their knees, not talk shit about adding an extra hour.

I think this would be hard to impose really .Teachers have enough to do as it is without putting any more their way surely? Children will be at the point of burnout soon!

@DeciduousPerennial

“Like, I already leave work at 5pm every day at the moment (which is earlier than in normal times) and don’t get home until half past, so if I was teaching until 5 I wouldn’t get home until like 7pm every night to then get up at 6 the next day. No thanks.”

I’m just curious - is this because you need to take work home?

I try to do my prep for the next day and marking at work but usually end up taking some home as well as it’s 60+ books each with a positive comment and development point in normal times.

I’m only an NQT and in a school with heavy marking, so I’m not as quick as I could be! The physical book marking is less now as I have less children in but I still need to do all the online marking, which is another around 60 pieces of work a night. I usually do some of that at home, especially as it comes in through the evening. It’s quicker to type.

I wouldn’t be doing the online stuff if all kids were back but presumably teaching longer means teaching more lessons, which means MORE marking. Otherwise what’s the point if you’re not assessing it? In normal times I’m not home until 6:30 most nights anyway if I’m trying not to take anything home so god knows what it would be with longer hours. Not for me, anyway.

I know some people despise teachers so much that they jump on any prospect of damaging teachers’ terms and conditions. It’s a shame these people are so wilfully blind to the consequences of their attitude on the quality of their own children’s education but they’ll never see it.

What astonishes me is that some people hate teachers so much that they’re also prepared to damage children’s lives too. Longer hours and summer school is not the answer to help our children recover from this crisis. It’s a disaster in the making. Anyone with the slightest clue about how children learn would know this.

We can’t all just work twice as hard for a year to ‘make up’ the lost learning or work from the pandemic. We need to heal. We need to reset our expectations. Not run ourselves into the ground trying to make it be as though covid never happened. We have to deal with it and move on sustainably.

There is no way I’d put my children in extra school after all of this.

I don't agree teachers should be made to stay on and complete these extra lessons – when are they supposed to fit in the extra marking and planning and all the other class-related admin on top of what they already do? In their sleep?

But the bottom line is there is no way after an already shitty year being locked indoors that I'm going to agree to my DC staying late at school. I want her in the park with her mates as soon as the bell goes, getting some sun on her face, not stuck in a classroom with some volunteer.

@LegoPirateMonkey

I know some people despise teachers so much that they jump on any prospect of damaging teachers’ terms and conditions. It’s a shame these people are so wilfully blind to the consequences of their attitude on the quality of their own children’s education but they’ll never see it.

What astonishes me is that some people hate teachers so much that they’re also prepared to damage children’s lives too. Longer hours and summer school is not the answer to help our children recover from this crisis. It’s a disaster in the making. Anyone with the slightest clue about how children learn would know this.

We can’t all just work twice as hard for a year to ‘make up’ the lost learning or work from the pandemic. We need to heal. We need to reset our expectations. Not run ourselves into the ground trying to make it be as though covid never happened. We have to deal with it and move on sustainably.

There is no way I’d put my children in extra school after all of this.

Common sense. Absolutely this.

... sorry but why is this thread suddenly all about teachers?
(I know It will be teachers who will pick up the lost learning whatever the government decides to do.)

I would worry about my DC (as some posters admittedly said) having longer hours and being more tired. They will still not able to be children that have enough time to play laugh and explore the world, their likes and dislikes as well as establishing different friendship groups.

The problem with demanding teachers do more hours are a) state education already runs on a lot of good will and most teachers far exceed their contracted hours b) there's a huge recruitment and retention problem, we have the youngest teaching workforce in Europe because so many leave after a few years. I'm sure that this will improve a little as we head into recession, generally it does, but that will only be a temporary change. I teach in a great school with lovely kids and supportive SLT, but we can't recruit enough good maths teachers, if we're struggling then the situation must be dire in some schools.

I can't see how it would work.
It would eat into extra curricular activities, which kids are desperate for.

I think they just need to accept money has to be thrown at keeping kids at school for an extra year. Let the little ones come in next Sept (extra teachers and portcabins plus timetable juggling) but no one moves up. Although I know this buggers up 6th form and uni .

@TheYearOfSmallThings

I think the school day is already long enough for most children. They run out of focus, run out of willingness to learn... I just don't think this is the answer.

And yet they are then expected to do hours of homework at night.

I'd support a longer school day if it meant no homework. We expect a work life balance for adults, but kids are expected to do 9-3 days and then homework at night too, despite not being adults.

No way! DS is good in school anyway, but has excelled being home. Had two calls this week from form tutor and head of year, he's the only kid in his class to be doing all of his lessons.

He won't be doing any extra.

storminabuttercup

My relative who is a teacher already works during weekends and evenings to improve quality of education for her students. Honestly I think you have no idea what is going on in teaching.

My child is Yr11 and they have had an extra hour a day since September in school. They have also had an hour Saturday morning zoom Maths and English since September so already been happening.

Plus I'm primary and we have been tutoring certain children after school since September.

I think they just need to accept money has to be thrown at keeping kids at school for an extra year
Kids need to leave school every year and go to college and university. If they miss a year’s intake, the following year there will be no colleges or universities for anyone to go to, because they’ll have closed down due to lack of funds. It’s impossible to hold them all back for a year.

But equally it shouldn't be a choice- it should be a clear instruction from government that it is teachers' civic duty to support catch up programmes.
Why is it my civic duty?? I get paid to do a job. I do that job. Why do I have civic duty whilst my much better paid in the private sector investment manager friend doesn't have civic duty?
Absolute nonsense.

The best approach would be to fund additional teachers to deliver catch up teaching sessions with ring fenced funding. Children with SEN will need specialist teaching. Anything else is just plugging holes and hoping for the best.

I'm surprised so many are against and appear horrified about this suggestion. Education isn't the be all and end all but it is important and some kids have missed so much. I suspect most kids would rather do an extra couple of hours a day than a whole year.

When are some school staff so reluctant to do that bit extra?

We are in school from around 8. We teach till 3. We then mark and prep classes for the following day. Most of us do catch up classes or some form of after school,pmactivity or club at least a couple,of times a week. This means prep and marking is shifted to the evening. We rework schemes of work, prepare assessments, write reports, do paperwork, phone parents, write newsletters, prep for and attend parents evenings, etc etc in the evenings. What extra is it you think we don’t do?

Unions or teachers unwilling to co-operate should be subject to termination and the imposition of new contracts

There’s no terminating the contracts of unions. They exist because their membership pay their dues. Happy to co-operate with working extra hours but not at the expense of my relationship with my children, wider family and friends. If you want me to work later, there will need to be ‘give’ somewhere else. More free time during the day rather than 6 hours straight teaching. That will require more teachers but I am sure that won’t be a problem, the ITT courses are always full and there are loads of teachers sitting around looking for work...even more specialists in the shortage subject areas needing work I’m sure . You will also need to ensure there is childcare to cover the longer hours. And therapy for the breakdowns and the family breakdowns. And you’ll need to pay us, of course.,