Will schools really go back with 30 in a class and unvaccinated teachers?

[Lemons1571]

This is giving me anxiety. DH is late 40’s and not the fittest, but not CV as far as we know. Probably the most at risk in group 10 (if such a group existed).

We are both ok with waiting for our turn for the vaccine while the schools have relatively few kids in them and therefore sd is more possible and it feels a bit safer. But recently I’ve scared myself shitless with the new variants and the thought that the late 40’s are not on any priority list. DH is not allowed any ppe, it’s not allowed, no mask, no Perspex, and is at best 1m from the front row of 11-18 year olds in a poorly ventilated room.

Do you think teachers will be forced back into these working conditions? I’m losing sleep over this. I don’t know how to gain perspective, as my gut says 31 people with no ppe in a poorly ventilated room is not safe. Do you think if I contacted the gp they’d give me anti anxiety meds? CBT? Just until we get a vaccine and maybe then will feel less scared.

Anyone else a teacher or have a teacher in the family? How are you dealing with this?

@notevenat20

But you can't bring in additional measures and maintain the fiction that schools are safe. And the priority is to maintain the fiction.

You make it sound like there is a malign plot. Surely the priority of the govt is to return to normal education as soon as possible. The leading scientists do say that teachers are at no more risk than other people at work. This time round all CEV or elderly teachers will have been vaccinated too.

Well I am mid fifties and quite worried. I have youngish dependents. I am personally very afraid. No-one cares. All they provide me with is a test to see if I've caught it. All the teachers at my school are all happy to go back. So would I be if I was 20-35

@majororminor

The mistake was in ever talking about schools being 'safe'. Wtf does 'safe' mean? Lots of people have inferred that it means 'impossible to catch Covid in', which is utterly ludicrous, as this will always be impossible to achieve while the virus is circulating at all. What the govt presumably means is 'sufficiently safe that the risk to pupils, teachers and society from transmission in schools is outweighed by the risk to young people in having schools shut' - but that doesn't make such a snappy soundbite.

Completely wrong there. Safe is risk assessment safe.

OK, but what does 'risk assessment safe' mean? My understanding of a risk assessment is it means that you have assessed the risks and mitigated them as far as is possible - not that the risk has been eliminated. But that still doesn't actually tell you what degree of Covid transmission risk is considered sufficiently safe to allow schools to open.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones Who should be a lower priority for vaccination if teachers are prioritised?

Well why does it need to be a choice?

Why can't they be included?

Also, if it cuts the spread of covid, all the better for everyone!

Is this in England? My daughter had to wear a mask at school end of last year and teachers could if they wished along with as much SD as possible. This is in Scotland from age 13/14 up I think.

ttps://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/familyhealth/scientists-say-children-should-be-vaccinated-against-coronavirus/ar-BB1djTXt?ocid=msedgdhp

The risks of sending children back to school are still unknown.
Long covid is a huge risk to children's health.
Very interesting article.

It also states that it wouldn't take long to vaccinate teachers with a small delay to the over 70's.

The teachers at DC3's secondary school wear masks. So do the students.

We are allowed to wear masks since the start. Children can if they like but most don't [Primary]. They caught it then. What extra mitigations are there? Er none!
So new more contagious virus. Business as usual here :( Media silence in Scotland. EIS union makes a statement then inaction. Very concerning.

My DH is a teacher yes, and he, and I, believe the lesser of two evils is for schools to be totally open. He is very happy to take the “risk” and I am relieved there are many more teachers like him
I am a teacher and same here /hope we’re all back 8th March at the latest with no masks-in-classrooms nonsense. The obsession with masks is ridiculous -they were only ever a device to get people back out when the gvt had over-cooked the stay-at-home scare.
Masks are pointless and ineffective and have no place in the classroom.

My understanding of a risk assessment is it means that you have assessed the risks and mitigated them as far as is possible

Exactly, not that you don't bother mitigating the risk at all, which is what we have in UK schools. No mitigation against airborne transmission at all from a predominantly airborne disease.

It's like having a building site and saying hard hats are optional.

OP it sounds like your MH is a bigger risk right now to you than covid so I would definitely speak to your GP. IT has been a horrendous time, I totally get it. My MH has taken a beating too after never being an issue before. Talk honestly with your GP and see what they suggest. You don't have to live like this, there is help out there for you.

On the more general theme, yes I fear you are right that schools will return as before

However realistically, what would actually happen if all teachers insisted on wearing masks? I appreciate it will still be of limited value, but if wearing a good quality mask, it will help a bit. The teachers in my DC's schools were wearing masks from September and we kept getting emails saying they had no cases, right up until schools closed. Obviously that was pure luck, but maybe the masks helped a bit, who knows.

I genuinely think school staff should just do it, they can't exactly sack them if they stay united. I know school staff don't feel like it but I promise every single one of you are precious; to us parents, to the dc, to society, to your colleagues, to your SLT. I am truly sorry you are still being treated like crap.

Surely the priority of the govt is to return to normal education as soon as possible

That is indeed the ideal. I’m not sure getting back to normal as soon as possible is happening as a ‘priority’ anywhere else though? Most places aren’t and can’t be back as normal, because we are in the middle of a pandemic.

In lockdown 1 the government guidance was a cap on bubbles of 15 children. This is no longer applicable so we have between 21 and 25 in our key worker bubbles. So many staff are vulnerable and so working from home doing planning and interventions that the remaining staff have really large groups.

Surely the priority of the govt is to return to normal education as soon as possible

But surely that should also come with safety measures in place to protect staff, children and their families.

If it's not safe enough for 32 people to sit in close contact indoors, with no extra measures in place, in an office, in a restaurant, in a church hall, etc. Then why is it suddenly safe to do,so I'm a classroom?

The problem is that if they send them back as before (in Sept) then by June we'll be really lucky not to be back in another lockdown - unless they get around to vaccinating all the parents of school aged kids.

Plus lots of kids will be out isolating.

If you repeat the same mistakes, generally you get the same problems again .

I genuinely think school staff should just do it, they can't exactly sack them if they stay united. I know school staff don't feel like it but I promise every single one of you are precious; to us parents, to the dc, to society, to your colleagues, to your SLT. I am truly sorry you are still being treated like crap

Yes, well said, I completely support teachers wearing masks.

That would obviously be a huge improvement in terms of protecting staff - but it would do nothing to address the problem of congregating massive groups of children inside with no social distancing for hours a day and the knock on effects of this on transmission in the community.

Plus the fact that the more environments you provide where spread is unabated the more chance new variants will take off - some of which could evade the protection of the vaccine.

Nobody who has taught at a school affected by covid could think for a second that schools are “safe”. They’re clearly not. I’m happy to go back as soon as possible but I feel very strongly it needs to happen slowly with staggered entry and smaller classes. The only time I’ve felt “safe” at school was teaching a bubble of ten Y1s last summer. Everything since then has been crowded and hectic.

There was an episode of More or Less recently about the risk to teachers. It's worth listening to.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000rvjr

[quote Rosehip10]@BustopherPonsonbyJones Who should be a lower priority for vaccination if teachers are prioritised?[/quote]
Anyone who can stay at home and isolate could be moved down the list for the vaccine as they can continue to shield. The thing is any of us could be vulnerable to this disease and Long Covid is pretty nasty too.

I only want to be pushed up the list if I am expected to be in a classroom in an covid-unsafe working environment (which all of them are). If I can continue to work from home, I am happy to wait until the summer but home schooling is not a popular option for many on here.

Out of interest, would you prefer schools to open (and vaccinate teachers) or stay in lockdown (and concentrate on vaccinating vulnerable people, may of whom will be continuing to work from home), @Rosehip10? If it was a straight choice, would you put the vulnerable or your children first?

My mum (aged 72) and my dad (71) have been vaccinated. Both retired. Both get supermarket delivery. Able to stay home and avoid others.
I won't be vaccinated any time soon but I will be expected to go back into a tiny classroom with 32 year 11 students for two hours at a time, with no mitigations other than an open window and some tape on the floor.
I don't begrudge anyone their vaccine (and I will be getting one out of sequence anyway) but why am I expected to take more risks than my friend who is expected to work from home to keep safe?

2 cases i read about in the news of people who had NO underlying conditions dying. These were people in their 30's. A tradegy. There will be more.
Quite frankly I am beside myself with worry. Coupled with the insecurities playing out with my 9 year old who keeps saying don't ever die.
I am in my 50's with no underlying health conditions as i know. The key parts of this is that I have no idea If i do. I am well aware that I could have because things happen as you get older. I really dont want to be playing russian roulette. My dh is also late 50's and overweight.
I am very well aware by me catching it when schools go back here soon it could change my life forever.
Is it a risk I am willing to take for a job?
No. All i know is I feel sick with worry and cannot sleep.
Thanks Mr Swinney.

Parent. Think teachers should be vaccinated in order of

1. SEN SCHOOLS,
2. EY due to poor distancing amongst younger children
3. the rest

Social workers - yep they should all be vaccinated. We should probably vaccinate anyone with dark skin quicker too.

ALL SCHOOLS SHOULD BE RETROFITTED WITH ADEQUATE VENTILATION SYSTEMS.
This has already been recommended by scientists.

As should all offices Or other workplaces.

Grants should be available to do this.

Without this investment - the next few years will be very tough whilst we deal with COVID. I’m guessing few teachers in the state system vote Tory anyway. This government have got so much to answer for.