Will schools really go back with 30 in a class and unvaccinated teachers?

[Lemons1571]

This is giving me anxiety. DH is late 40’s and not the fittest, but not CV as far as we know. Probably the most at risk in group 10 (if such a group existed).

We are both ok with waiting for our turn for the vaccine while the schools have relatively few kids in them and therefore sd is more possible and it feels a bit safer. But recently I’ve scared myself shitless with the new variants and the thought that the late 40’s are not on any priority list. DH is not allowed any ppe, it’s not allowed, no mask, no Perspex, and is at best 1m from the front row of 11-18 year olds in a poorly ventilated room.

Do you think teachers will be forced back into these working conditions? I’m losing sleep over this. I don’t know how to gain perspective, as my gut says 31 people with no ppe in a poorly ventilated room is not safe. Do you think if I contacted the gp they’d give me anti anxiety meds? CBT? Just until we get a vaccine and maybe then will feel less scared.

Anyone else a teacher or have a teacher in the family? How are you dealing with this?

MrsSmith2021 I can’t comment on OP but I don’t go to the supermarket, I get home deliveries and we wipe our shopping down and my husband works from home. If we get COVID is will be from school - either from me teaching in one or my kids learning in one.

Last time I went into a supermarket, the queues were socially distanced, all the customers and staff were masked and the checkout assistant was behind a bit lump of clear plastic. If teachers could work under the same conditions, it would be a start.

Children need to get back into the classrooms as soon as possible that’s obvious. I can’t see the DfE being creative or put money into ways this could be done more safely. Masks for all teachers and secondary pupils and optional for primary at parent/child request is about as much as they’ll do. Therefore.....

I think all primary years to return first 8th March. The infection rate monitored for 3-4weeks. That in England takes us to Easter hols. I appreciate it’s not good for the economy but everything else can’t open eg tourism as it’ll jeopardise schools, so cut Easter hols to just the BH weekend and continue the reopening of schools. My DP is a teacher. Then after Easter Monday reopen ks4/5 Monitor and then reopen ks3 so by April 26th all schools reopened. Having the Easter holidays where it is jeopardises schools even if not much of the economy is reopened. The 2weeks Easter hols could be used flexibly by adding an extra week to Oct half term and xmas hols just incase infections are rising again. By May everything else could be opening up while monitoring the infection rate and onwards and upwards to a “Great British Summer”!

I don't understand the no mask thing. In my DDs' secondary school, students and teachers must wear masks in class. Very few cases, under 10 in whole school and only 2 teachers. Is it at Headteacher or LA discretion?

In any case it sounds like primary will be back in March but secondary not till after Easter, by which time the priority groups should all have been vaccinated and if the decrease in cases continues at its current rate, there will be very few cases. So it's a little early to panic and yes I would speak to GP.

DD1 is home from special school but has daily zooms with her form class. The children that are in are wearing masks and the teachers are wearing masks and visors.

OP, I'd be very surprised if secondary schools open in full on 8th March. This is the earliest date for reopening. After Easter seems a more likely date for most secondary schools and I have a feeling teachers will have been vaccinated by then. You should definitely speak to your GP if you feel you can't cope, it does sound like you could do with some extra support right now

[quote Bluepiano]@RosesAndLemonade with respect, I don’t think that ‘just get on with it’ is a fair way to expect people to work. You are lucky that you haven’t been ill, it’s just luck, not safety. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to want themselves or their loved ones, to work in as safe an environment as reasonably possible.
Most people could go years driving a car and not need their seatbelt to save them in an accident but most people wouldn’t dream of not wearing one or assert that the law requiring one is disproportionate.[/quote]
Hang on where have I said I think people should just get on with it ??? I haven't ? I said I do - but that's my personal choice. As it goes it was probably a fairly shit choice as the stress of the last few weeks has now landed me in hospital with a flare of my chronic illnesses so there we go

I think there will be no changes in education - but I never said I think that's right. Irs patently obvious that the gvmt give less than two shits about teachers and school staff so yes I think that they will go back as normal.

I do think if OP is feeling very anxious she should approach her GP for help. The situation is sadly quite unlikely to change when the schools open and there's absolutely no change in taking some meds to help mood. I have severe mental health issues and wouldn't be here without meds so I'm always very pro getting support if needed.

I don't think people should just get on with it - I have some colleagues as I work in SEN who are currently at home because they've decided to use the section 44 - and I support their choice. It's not something I choose. I just get on with it, but without giving too much personal details the reason I just get on with it is because I have experienced such a deeply traumatic loss of one of my children in the last few years that it would take something quite a lot to make me even bother worrying about stuff anymore.

I'm sorry if what I wrote came across as me saying that everyone should get on with it - I'm not exactly well or thinking straight atm but that's not what I meant at all. That's my choice and it isn't for everyone. I have friends with the same illnesses as me and the don't shield and I know people who do - their choice.

I do always advocate seeking any mental health help needed to support how you manage day to day though so that's kind of what I was getting at.

@CKBJ I'd rather my children have doWntime when the weather is nice thanks. At least they can get out for cycles and walks. They've been completely miSerable with the crap weather since chrustmas don't really fancy the same again.
Easter is important even if we can't go on hoLiday.

I think the unions may ask for evidence that it’s safe again and then instruct members to take action on Section 44 again.

I read in Schoolsweek, that the government knew about the concerns with the new variant 2 weeks before closing schools. When the unions stepped up, the government then took action on the new variant....

@CKBJ all our staff are currently in school teaching kw / v and online. I don’t think we should be expected to give up our Easter holidays.
Likewise my children are working hard online and will be ready for a break when it comes to Easter.

@supersonicginandtonic yes, see your point. Apart last year and potentially this year we always go away at Easter it’s our favourite holiday, however overall and thinking about children as a whole not just mine I think the majority of children’s mental health would improve if they return to school. We would still have whitsun holiday and the summer holiday. Also getting children back in the classroom for a couple of weeks and then be off again just as routines/expectations are being reestablished is not good for the children.

@CKBJ may be not and I have one with ADHD and ASD but my 2 girls (12 and 13, year 8), mental health is taking a hammering. They need a break from home schooling and that two week gap will do them the world of good. Plus you have to take into account, parents will have already sorted annual leave and childcare and children of seperated parents need that tome to see both parents.
The end of may is a very long way to go before the children and teachers have a break.

@starrynight19 my children are working hard at home too and my DP is teaching online and actually doing more work than normal, however I still think children would benefit from not having Easter holidays in the longer term and teachers too. As I said routines will be being established etc only for there then be a break of a couple of weeks. We know several NHS workers, plenty have had leave cancelled at short notice and working much longer hours than normal-patients come first approach, in this case it’ll be children come first. It’s also a short half term to May half term with a bank holiday weekend too.

We won’t be able to go away, or even very far from home.

Going to school, getting away from the house, being with friends will be like a holiday.

Easter should cancelled I think.

I’m sorry you’re feeling so anxious OP. It definitely sounds worth a chat with your GP.

Yes I think we’ll be back as before. Quite frankly right now I still have half my class in so teaching them as normal (& it is not really possible to distance), plus supporting children & families at home. I’m doing 2 jobs and it’s utterly exhausting...I’d rather just have my whole class in & be back to ‘normal’ as I don’t feel any more or less safe at school now than I did in the Autumn.

@CKBJ that is also why I can’t support your plan to lose the Easter hols. I’m working flat out right now. There will be different challenges with getting children currently at home back to school which will add to the emotional / mental load though physical workload will hopefully reduce a bit. I can sustain this for a bit without stopping, but not indefinitely and will be no good to anyone after a certain amount of time without a break.

so cut Easter hols to just the BH weekend and continue the reopening of schools

Children are working hard, in circumstances that make it stressful for them. Parents too, obv. They need the break. They won't change holidays, if they do there will suddenly be a lot of 'ill' school staff. I'm working way over my hours to provide what the gov has told us to provide, I'm not going to keep going through my holidays. Maybe they could pay school staff the 1000 bonus to work the 2 weeks, same as they paid DfE staff over Christmas to work on urgently fucking things up.

Going to school, getting away from the house, being with friends will be like a holiday.

Not for staff.

Having no Easter break will lead to burnt out staff and children. I’m not sure it will benefit either of them just to keep routine going.

Yes we will be back. But, it'll be better weather so not as cold with all the windows and doors open.

Definitely not turning this into teacher bashing my DP is a teacher and in-laws I appreciate the extra endless hours being put in but teachers are not unique to this. My sil is a itu nurse working 13hr shifts caring for 4patients instead of 1, all holiday has been cancelled. Yes she is struggling, yes nurses are off sick but the vast majority trundle along. Rightly or wrongly that’s what they do...just like teachers.

Children will need a readjustment time when they return the “extra” weeks could be used for this: well being and mental health could help the teaching staff too.

I do think by the Easter hols positioned where they are we run the risk of getting children back in the classroom establish routines only to be forgotten when they return after the holiday and more learning time is lost. Also run the risk of a rise in community infection which would jeopardise the classrooms remaining open as it’s the holidays people will see their children are back to school so will “mix” more because “they do it at school anyway”.

Never would I have thought I’d be in position to actually argue about scrapping a school holiday! In normal times we live for the school holidays.

@Dustyboots that would be nothing like any of the holidays I've ever taken my kids. What a strange comparison.

@CKBJ

Definitely not turning this into teacher bashing my DP is a teacher and in-laws I appreciate the extra endless hours being put in but teachers are not unique to this. My sil is a itu nurse working 13hr shifts caring for 4patients instead of 1, all holiday has been cancelled. Yes she is struggling, yes nurses are off sick but the vast majority trundle along. Rightly or wrongly that’s what they do...just like teachers.

Children will need a readjustment time when they return the “extra” weeks could be used for this: well being and mental health could help the teaching staff too.

I do think by the Easter hols positioned where they are we run the risk of getting children back in the classroom establish routines only to be forgotten when they return after the holiday and more learning time is lost. Also run the risk of a rise in community infection which would jeopardise the classrooms remaining open as it’s the holidays people will see their children are back to school so will “mix” more because “they do it at school anyway”.

Never would I have thought I’d be in position to actually argue about scrapping a school holiday! In normal times we live for the school holidays.

You do realise that there is a big difference between holidays cancelled that can be taken at another time and being paid for the extra work you're doing and holidays cancelled to be worked over unpaid and not able to be taken at a different time?

There's a massive difference.

@IncidentsandAccidents

OP, I'd be very surprised if secondary schools open in full on 8th March. This is the earliest date for reopening. After Easter seems a more likely date for most secondary schools and I have a feeling teachers will have been vaccinated by then. You should definitely speak to your GP if you feel you can't cope, it does sound like you could do with some extra support right now

Yes I’m pinning my hopes on teachers getting a vaccine before they go back to full classes. Because it’s obvious the government is not going to fund other safety measures such as Perspex or masks. So maybe they’ll shell out £3 for a vaccine. I just want it to be in time for teachers who are a bit vulnerable but not vulnerable enough for groups 1-9.

I hope the section 44 that kicked off the week before Christmas will make the government think twice about full schools before there’s some protection in place.

I can’t believe I feel this agoraphobic actually. Last time I was al for schools going back in September. This time I want to keep everyone at home for as long as possible. The closer we get to an exit from all this, the more anxious I feel and the more I want to hunker down until it’s all over. Maybe I’ve been running to some extent on adrenaline, and now it’s been a long time and all the anxiety from the last year is coming out.

@Bluepiano what choice do you think @RosesAndLemonade has other than to just get on with it?

If you work in SEN the children all have the right to be in school. They need a high ratio of adult support and many cannot possibly socially distance. I have children in my class who need an adult close enough to them at all times to intervene immediately if they attack another child- trust me that is much less than 2m. I have spitters- PHE just told us to have spare clothes in school.

It wouldn't be right for the children to be at home because their families desperately need school. So what are your suggestions for us other than just getting on with it?

Do you go to a supermarket?

Yes, I do, and I see supermarket staff in masks and visors, social distancing and plastic screens, which was absolutely not the case in the college I worked in before lockdown. Apart from mask wearing in corridors, and non-teaching staff working from home, no useful mitigation measures were in place there.

Having said that, I am respectful of and grateful to supermarket staff for the job they do. I also make sure to shop in supermarkets where the shop itself is well organised for Covid safety and customers are sensible and compliant. My local Aldi is best for this.