Will schools really go back with 30 in a class and unvaccinated teachers?

[Lemons1571]

This is giving me anxiety. DH is late 40’s and not the fittest, but not CV as far as we know. Probably the most at risk in group 10 (if such a group existed).

We are both ok with waiting for our turn for the vaccine while the schools have relatively few kids in them and therefore sd is more possible and it feels a bit safer. But recently I’ve scared myself shitless with the new variants and the thought that the late 40’s are not on any priority list. DH is not allowed any ppe, it’s not allowed, no mask, no Perspex, and is at best 1m from the front row of 11-18 year olds in a poorly ventilated room.

Do you think teachers will be forced back into these working conditions? I’m losing sleep over this. I don’t know how to gain perspective, as my gut says 31 people with no ppe in a poorly ventilated room is not safe. Do you think if I contacted the gp they’d give me anti anxiety meds? CBT? Just until we get a vaccine and maybe then will feel less scared.

Anyone else a teacher or have a teacher in the family? How are you dealing with this?

@dingledongle

37 social workers died between March and December last year can we have a support thread for them too please

That's awful, and you should start one.

I do think that there needs to be a huge fuss made if they attempt to just shove the schools back without any mitigation. I wrote to my MP about it but have just had a garbage response about how schools are safe and teachers are in a 'priority group for Covid tests'. Er, anyone can get a covid test you absolute ninny.

My dh works in secondary already has his vaccine appointment for next week.

I work with early years. We have been open since June 1st other than school holidays. PPE is impossible with 2-4 year olds. No vaccines in sight for us.

As a teacher it is ok to really care very much about community transition but also to be afraid of being face to face with 30 children with no PPE and no vaccine because politically it is not ok and the ‘Mumsnet mafia’ think we should be braver. I’m SEN teacher with SEN teacher husband and 4 children. We have been working face to face since March and have to put up with media/ Mumsnet denigration and put ourselves and 4 children at risk or lose our income. I’m

Yes. I fully expect this to be the situation. I work in SEN, zero social distancing or appropriate PPE. Thank goodness schools are magical buildings were viruses cannot transmit

I'm still working throughout this lockdown so my children, one of whom is CV, are at school too as my DH is also a key-worker. I have decided to give up worrying as there isn't anything I can do to control my family's exposure.

I’m also a teacher, now working in early years, and I agree with previous posters who said nobody cares. Nobody cares, nobody actually cares about us, not the Government and certainly not our parents who are sending in their children because we have to be open to all. We have also been open since June 1st.
We have no PPE except disposable aprons which we used anyway and are coughed and sneezed on daily. We deal with sick, snot, change nappies, comfort ill children who tell us they were sick in the night but they are given Calpol and sent in. When they are obviously sick again, we have to isolate them, call parents who are often annoyed to be asked to come and pick them up. All the usual day to day illnesses, bumps and bugs you deal with when working with young children.
We have less time and there are now fewer staff available to actually play with and teach these children, because we spend literally hours cleaning now. Every toy, every single thing the children touch from the huge wooden slide to the tiny lego bricks, every single thing has to be cleaned when it is used. The money we raised over the past few months to spend on new toys has now been used to buy cleaning equipment. We now work longer hours without extra pay just to clean everything.
We are a great team, very well qualified and most of us are over 40.
We do it for the children, and we all love our jobs. It is a joy to watch these children grow up, to see them change from the tiny two year olds they were to the confident pre-schoolers who have outgrown us and are ready for school. We love it and we are very good at it.
But we are not safe, we risk our lives every day now. There is no mention of vaccines for Early Years staff. We are expected to just get on with it. I have read so many of these threads now. We are no different to the schools, we all want to be safe. Just to do the jobs we love and stay safe.

@notevenat20

If you are under 50 and not CV it's not clear you really need to worry about covid. The main problem for schools will be if children are constantly off self isolating.

LFTs seem like a really good idea for schools. I hope they are rolled out.

LFT’s that on,y picked up 3% of cases when used at Birmingham University? As a screening measure, fair enough, it’ll catch a few cases which we would miss. As proposed instead of isolation it would have been an utter nightmare.

@HollyandJingles

I’m also a teacher, now working in early years, and I agree with previous posters who said nobody cares. Nobody cares, nobody actually cares about us, not the Government and certainly not our parents who are sending in their children because we have to be open to all. We have also been open since June 1st. We have no PPE except disposable aprons which we used anyway and are coughed and sneezed on daily. We deal with sick, snot, change nappies, comfort ill children who tell us they were sick in the night but they are given Calpol and sent in. When they are obviously sick again, we have to isolate them, call parents who are often annoyed to be asked to come and pick them up. All the usual day to day illnesses, bumps and bugs you deal with when working with young children. We have less time and there are now fewer staff available to actually play with and teach these children, because we spend literally hours cleaning now. Every toy, every single thing the children touch from the huge wooden slide to the tiny lego bricks, every single thing has to be cleaned when it is used. The money we raised over the past few months to spend on new toys has now been used to buy cleaning equipment. We now work longer hours without extra pay just to clean everything. We are a great team, very well qualified and most of us are over 40. We do it for the children, and we all love our jobs. It is a joy to watch these children grow up, to see them change from the tiny two year olds they were to the confident pre-schoolers who have outgrown us and are ready for school. We love it and we are very good at it. But we are not safe, we risk our lives every day now. There is no mention of vaccines for Early Years staff. We are expected to just get on with it. I have read so many of these threads now. We are no different to the schools, we all want to be safe. Just to do the jobs we love and stay safe.

I know it won’t mean much but I’m an SEN teacher and I stand by you and everything you say. There are no platitudes that will make any difference but I see myEYFS colleagues and I feel everything you say.

@MerryMarigold

My dh works in secondary already has his vaccine appointment for next week.

I work with early years. We have been open since June 1st other than school holidays. PPE is impossible with 2-4 year olds. No vaccines in sight for us.

This isn’t about secondary and primary - teachers are not on the lists. If your DH is getting it it’s not because he’s a secondary teacher, it’s some weird quirk of your local vaccination station. According to the rules he shouldn’t be.

In answer the question, yes, I think the government will expect this. Think of Gavin Williamson's view of teachers or at least teaching unions, the fact that Boris Johnson as London Mayor would not even talk to trade unions, and that Michael Gove when Education Secretary fell out with them (though was prepared to have discussions).

It might not be classes of 30 though, as I expect some children will be kept at home because of the health of other family members or a requirement to self-isolate.

Why is our government completely resistant to schools returning in any other format/way?

Because their kids don't go to state schools and they'd rather give the cash to their mates (e.g. Serco/ PPE contract scandals)?

This article, while harrowing and very much backing up the idea that DfE don't give a shit, does show that medical grade masks make a huge difference. From what I've been reading medical grade masks make a much bigger difference than other masks.

"Since we moved to medical-grade masks at the start of November we have had no transmissions within the school"

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/school-special-coronavirus-ysgol-deri-19729659

I think it would be sensible for key public facing workers ( to include teachers police shop staff) and those at most risk because of their jobs to be put on a reserve list ( in Covid ‘age’ order) to call on if there are a couple of doses spare that would otherwise go to waste at the end of the day. It might be rather complex to administer!

I'm over 50 with a heart issue. But not CEV so not expecting vaccine until April. But will be back in school in March. If it's all back as Sept I've decided not to go. I have a resignation in for that reason and will leave teaching if the government thinks my life is worth so little. Many colleagues planning not to go in to full school. I'm currently in everyday teaching remotely as well as covering KW pods. I'm knackered.

There's a brilliant article in the Independent that I can't link to on my phone.

Maybe someone else could? Puts U4T back in their box.

All teachers need to be prepared to hand in their section 44s if they are expected to just go back to normal in March. The DofE have had plenty of time to sort of extra mitigations, the government have spent billions giving their mates money but they don’t want to spend a penny more in schools. Everyone should be up in arms about this. If teachers stand together and refuse to be treated like shit the government will have to do something else they will have all schools shut for the foreseeable.

My DP, mid 40s, tested negative on a LFT on Friday last week, as did all of his colleagues after a postive child attended school whilst waiting for their results. He developed symptoms on Saturday and was positive on a PCR test. 3 of his colleagues are now positive (via PCR, LFT still pulling negatives) as is our 15 year old, who hasn't been anywhere else but walks since Christmas day.

I spend an hour today wheeling him on an office chair to the bathroom to help him shower as he can't stand up on his own, let alone walk. He is very ill. The 15 year old is in bed and hasn't eaten today. I went for a test yesterday and am waiting for the results as my temperature is floating around 39 degrees at the moment, so I feel like shit. Thankfully I haven't been in school for a week so I won't have affected our key worker and vulnerable children, but I've had other staff covering for me which is just adding to the workload for them.

I have zero faith in the use of lateral flow tests now. I was hugely against them being used to replace isolations, but happy for them to catch out any random asymptomatic cases. Now I can just see how people will use them as a false reassurance and probably increase risky behaviour.

Radio here you go www.independent.co.uk/voices/teacher-coronavirus-school-safety-b1795126.html

Nasuwt sent out guidance saying handing in section 44s would amount to breach of contract and advised members against doing it.

They also said that you must ensure you've seen and are happy with the safety procedures put in place in the updated risk assessment before setting foot in school

I have zero faith in the use of lateral flow tests now. I was hugely against them being used to replace isolations, but happy for them to catch out any random asymptomatic cases. Now I can just see how people will use them as a false reassurance and probably increase risky behaviour

I completely agree. My school is offering them to staff (who are going into school especially for this), we have been told they are “99% accurate” and at no point has there been any suggestion that a negative test does not mean you’re not infected.

I hope you all feel better soon.

Yes. Also teachers, as a groups, aren’t putting pressure on the nhs so we shouldn’t be vaccinated before anyone in the priority groups IMO. Teachers who are at more risk will be picked up in the other teachers.

I honestly don’t think they’ll make vaccinating school staff a prerequisite of schools going back.

One of my year 7 classes currently had 34 on roll. Id actually appreciate only having the suggestion of 30 at the moment.

Parents should ask how many students will be in the same classes as their child. What’s the cap? Really put SLT under pressure.

Before - agree, it has been many years since I taught a class of 30 (primary).

Largest class for a while - 33 - though I have taught 34 and 35 in the more distant past.

They won't vaccinate us due to the statistics of how many people it will save from dying compared to continuing to vaccinate the older and most vulnerable.

While every part of society is being told to distance, not congregate, limit interactions, wear masks etc it won't feel safe to be told that we can just crack on in busy classrooms. But Joe public doesn't really have an idea what it is really like in school as evidenced by the number of people who think that their chld's school is covid secure so they believe the govt's 'it's safe' message. And while they are peddling the safe message it prevents them from having to consider any arrangements for changing things to make them safer.

This is interesting

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/thousands-of-teachers-across-the-us-get-covid-vaccination/ar-BB1deX7R