EU has triggered article 16 over controls on vaccine exports

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Breaking news on sky
news.sky.com/story/covid-19-eu-introduces-controls-on-vaccine-exports-to-northern-ireland-12202656

Will the vaccines keep if there are long delays?

If AZ have been honest the EU would have enough vaccine to meet its own March deadline. That was the piece if information from AZ that stuck out for me. The CEO said something like it's a very confident thing to say but we do expect to get vaccine output up so EU will be able to vaccinate it's most vulnerable by March.

I know from friends in Holland that they weren't really aware that AZ had a similar issue with UK output in December and that despite the shortage in immediate supply we are still working to the same timescale. AZ did/are keeping up with their contract... before the other EU factories were geared up to speed, awaiting confirmation of the EU order.

And other vaccines are coming online...

The EU has, however your politics go, reacted in a really aggressive and slightly illogical manner.

Take that off repeated statement about pre release contracts having to be met... but not if that contract is with someone other than the EU, it seems.

It isn't logical. It lacks diplomacy. And worse it stirs up anger and unease in all of Ireland. That's so against all of the EU tenets it is utterly gobsmacking.

Some will keep more than others. Someone said on another thread that AZ ?? will store for 6 months.

@Sunshinegirl82

It's possible to think that the EU haven't covered themselves in glory on the vaccine front and still not think that Brexit, in general terms, is a good idea,

I voted remain and I still think Brexit is a mistake. Who knows where we would be if the EU had had the benefit of the UK's influence when establishing its vaccine strategy? Perhaps the whole of Europe would be benefitting from a better strategy. Ultimately it's in the UK's interests for its closest neighbours to also achieve good rates of vaccination, we remain exposed until they do.

I also voted remain but I’m not sure brexit was a mistake any more to be honest. What’s happening is really very bad. The eu has of course pulled back on the Irish border but they have issued a statement saying if it’s not resolved they will do it. It’s a threat.

Of course it’s in our interests for the eu to have enough vaccinations but in reality it is more in our interests for us to have them, it’s that simple.

Three and a half million doses makes a difference to us. It’s a drop in the ocean to the eu due to its sheer scale.

If we were still part of the eu the pressure on us to give our vaccines up would be much much bigger than it is now, and right now it’s huge.

One element of this that gets me is that the implementation of A16 was to stop the UK getting vaccine supplies by 'the back door', ie the Republic of Ireland. So by definition they were assuming that the UK govt would do so. On what evidence?

I think the grounds were that they can't legally stop exports within the EU under their new export authorisation law, so they felt AZ could legally ship to Ireland and truck it up to NI.

Who would want to set up a factory in the EU?

Who would want to set up a factory in the EU?

That well known Brexiter Jim Ratcliffe for one....

DH sent me this interesting article from Der Spiegel (English translation)
www.spiegel.de/international/europe/europe-s-vaccine-disaster-commission-president-ursula-von-der-leyen-seeking-to-duck-responsibility-a-1197547d-6219-4438-9d69-b76e64701802

Thanks @CaveMum . That's interesting.

It's like taking your family to the pub for sunday lunch. You sit down and order your food. Another similar size party comes in after you and orders the same as you - sunday lunch. But there aren't enough sunday lunches left. So the second party go "Oh, well fulfil your obligation to us and give us the lunches the first party ordered or we'll blockade your pub". That's what the EU are doing to us.

Ursula Von der Leyen should be made to resign for this. Shocking, nasty behaviour, trying to blame AZ for EU shortcomings. Whatever you think of Boris, his vaccine procurement team has done an amazing job and puts the EU to shame.

@waterhorse123

It's like taking your family to the pub for sunday lunch. You sit down and order your food. Another similar size party comes in after you and orders the same as you - sunday lunch. But there aren't enough sunday lunches left. So the second party go "Oh, well fulfil your obligation to us and give us the lunches the first party ordered or we'll blockade your pub". That's what the EU are doing to us.

Yes, so who would be to blame in this scenario? Not really the second family, but the pub that said they could feed both families. If you were the second family and this meal was life or death, what would you do?

If you were the second family and this meal was life or death, what would you do?

Wait for the food to arrive - because it's coming and will arrive before starvation sets in.

And be glad I was in the restaurant in the first place because so many families can't afford to eat there, and are closer to death from starvation,

(What I would not do is try to take the food from the first table who had already eaten the bit you thought you would have had in other circs)

@myblackboots

Ursula Von der Leyen should be made to resign for this. Shocking, nasty behaviour, trying to blame AZ for EU shortcomings. Whatever you think of Boris, his vaccine procurement team has done an amazing job and puts the EU to shame.

Meh, she made one mistake and put it right quickly. It doesn't come close to resembling Johnson's constant stream of mistakes from which we are all still suffering.

@BraeburnPlace

But leaving the EU has created this. Sadly this is just the start of issues over ...most things. Triumphant leavers at the minute...but watch this space....scary stuff.

Both my DM and MIL are on their 90s. They have both had their first vaccination. If we were in the EU when would they get their jabs? They may have contracted Covid before the EU got round to organising the vaccines and either would almost certainly die if they catch it. The gov have made many errors during the pandemic, but the vaccine, up to now has been well handled, and may give one, or both of these lovely ladies several years more life.

Rosehip
Merkel is a disgrace.

Don't think it was the Germans?? Was it, thought it was the EU, was it Merkel? Must google it...

The Germans originally wanted to buy independently of the EU but were told they couldn't.

“but the pub that said they could feed both families.”

What if they didn’t? The second family came in too late, the pub may not have told them they had enough food to serve everyone that walked in, especially if they hadn’t booked.

@Arobase according to the Der Spiegel article I posted earlier it seems this is far from Ursula Von Der Leyen’s only mistake.

Reposting: www.spiegel.de/international/europe/europe-s-vaccine-disaster-commission-president-ursula-von-der-leyen-seeking-to-duck-responsibility-a-1197547d-6219-4438-9d69-b76e64701802

Pub analogy is more like...

The second family took so bloody long ordering that when they ordered a roast they were told it would now come at 4pm instead of 2.30pm.
"But when we arrived at 12, you said it would be 2.30pm" they said, "and now it's 1.30pm, we want our food in an hour".
"Yes, but you didn't order it then, it's 1.30pm now and still needs 2.5 hours of cooking time. You can have the chips first?"
"We don't want just chips, we want roast, give us some of their roast that's just coming out, a leg and some bits of breast."
"Well no, they ordered that."
"Jacques, stop any waiter coming out of the kitchen and grab all the chicken."

Whilst I was reading this thread it struck me that buying animals from a breeder is probably a better analogy:

You select a breeder that will contact you/choose you when they have an expected litter. A deposit is probably requested a couple of weeks after birth but this is no guarantee that the animals will not fail to thrive or perhaps die before they can leave their mum. If the pets are unhealthy you can't just demand another family's.

Ethically I think it would be difficult to justify seizing another country's vaccines whilst they have a much higher incidence/death rate than your own.

Meh, she made one mistake and put it right quickly

Are you serious? She wanted to invoke the Northern Ireland protocol over this. She wanted to blockade vaccines during a pandemic. She wanted to steal vaccines bought and paid for by another country.

She didn’t “make a mistake”. She tried to get away with criminal behaviour and got globally called out on it.

put it right quickly
I missed this gem.
Arlene Foster is on the news saying the entire NI deal is unworkable: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55866285. Unrest has been created, and it won't go away quickly.
So no, it hasn't been "put right" and von der Leyen should have already resigned last night.

Article 16 is not just a little mistake, to Ireland it’s like waging war on it’s border, it will have massive consequences. Ireland won’t trust the EU now. Southern Ireland were proud Europeans, they wouldn’t have a bad word said about the EU, that has now gone, the trust is gone.

It looks like Ursula actioned article 16, she should be sacked.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/30/pressure-mounts-von-der-leyen-shortcomings-brutally-exposed/amp/

@Blessex

Who would want to set up a factory in the EU?

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/30/uk-firms-plan-to-shift-across-channel-after-brexit-chaos?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other