Vaccine queue jumping making me feel angry

[Snog]

SIL has been vaccinated already- she is a healthy 40 year old, works from home, no caring responsibilities.

It's made me feel surprisingly angry. I'm not clear how she managed it at this point. On a personal level I like SIL so am pleased for her but god I feel angry at the injustice.

I know some people have picked up "spare" doses but surely even the spare doses should be managed according to health priorities? Eg at least finding someone in groups 1-9 to vaccinate if not in groups 1-4.

AIBU to feel angry about this?

In my extended family one healthcare worker who works remotely has had himself, his teenage daughter and his mother all done by pulling strings. One was done at his friend who is a GP- despite the fact I know they hadn't enough doses for all the over 80s as my uncle is a patient. His child was done when he went for his at the NHS vaccine centre and he'd got a mate to get her an appointment.

Assume the teenage daughter and the "child" are both over 18?

Cornetto - I would include all of those things. No fines, dreadful idea.

I think using up spare doses at the end of the day is fine, and should be used on anyone who happens to be nearby or is easily accessible.

I think these people would have been better to keep their mouths shut, as they must have known some people would be envious of them, or think they’d jumped the queue.

Having said that, I have been surprised how many people seem to have been “in the right place at the right time” for example the sister in law who is working at home. I do think some people not in the 0-9 groups are orchestrating this, which is a bit grabby.

I absolutely agree that the system could be better, of course it should be done in priority order. But I also know how complicated it would be to have a reserve system like most people want. Otherwise it would be done and rigidly stuck to, wouldn't it?

If I ask today and am told no because there is a list of people they are going to call first then that's fine and right. But realistically it doesn't happen so what would you suggest they do at the end of a session with no reserves to call in?

The UK vaccination rate is a huge success story. Look at where the rest of Europe is.

Yes the odd vaccine will go into a "not so" worthy arm, but the big picture story is the UK is vaccinating fast and generally to the priority groups - perhaps if they had to create lists for leftover priority vaccines, that would slow down the overall rate or require hardworking NHS staff to do yet more admin work.

No process is perfect and I guess it cheers me up slightly to think that this time round at least it's not the rich and famous bumping the queue, its family and friends of NHS staff. I really can't get too worked up about that.

Oh, and lying or “pulling strings” to get an actual appointment (not left overs), is abhorrent in my opinion.

I could book an appointment if I wanted to for my family members as I have access to a booking email, but as none are in the top 4 criteria, or live too far away, I wouldn’t dream of it.

How do these people justify it?

The top 4 groups are over 70’s, health and care workers and cev. The actual cev criteria are quite strict, but many people seem to think they’re in this category just because they have a medical condition.

When someone is being clearly ridiculous, they need to be told they are being clearly ridiculous. Which OP was

There are gentle and less gentle ways of doing this. Words hurt - even anonymously. Don't be nasty.

"Words hurt - even anonymously. Don't be nasty"

I wish this was the new MN motto.

Myself & my Dh 'jumped the queue' STS because we took my 89 yr old Mum & her 90 yr old partner to have their vaccinations. I am my Mum's carer & my Dh is the partner's carer. When we took them, it was the morning after Norway had 26 deaths in elderly ppl who had the vaccination and the vaccination hub had so many cancellations they were desperate to not waste it and asked us would we like to have it. Of course we said yes but we woudn't have taken it from someone in more need than us. They were very concerned re our status as carers & wanted us to have it too because if we were poorly then they would have no one to look after them .

The NHS is trying to a) run normal hospital services under difficult conditions, b) trying to manage Covid patients c) have doctor's surgeries struggling to see the people they need to see (while people clutter up their phone lines with vaccination questions) d) maintain an adequate staff presence when they're going down like flies with the virus and e) run vaccination hubs.

There are simply not enough people fre to be doing this large admin task for the sake of a tiny fraction of vaccines leftover. Kudos to the very few who have managed to find back up lists so far, but they're likely to be the doctor's surgeries where that information is available. The vaccine hubs don't have it. Our hub is run by four pharmacies. Not our doctors. So I imagine that they would struggle (or need to inconvenience our overwhelmed surgery) to get the information they'd need.

And yes, it's people whinging about this very small issue that results in vaccine centres being told to bin the vaccines instead. Which is tragic.

She could have an illness that she wants to keep private from her family that meant she was in line for any spare dose they have left over.

My husband is in the extremely clinically vulnerable group and on the cusp, hopefully, of getting his appointment. I am jealous of all the other 40 year old's getting their injections because I know how desperately I need mine. Because my husband had blood cancer the injection might not work so well on him. The Blood Cancer charities are asking the Government to prioritise people who live with blood cancer patients (after the first four groups) but so far it doesn't look like it is happening. So I have to carry on going out to work in retail and just keep my fingers crossed I don't bring it home. After reading this I am really tempted to ask my husband to try and make his appointment for late afternoon and go with him and hope they take pity on me.

And yes, it's people whinging about this very small issue that results in vaccine centres being told to bin the vaccines instead. Which is tragic

It really is. We’ve collectively backed our public services into a corner over the decades and now there’s no room for common sense or initiative .

It’s the same with benefits - because a spotlight has been shone on the tiny minority misusing them the scales have tipped so we have more people slipping through the net.

I’d rather a few shysters pulled a fast one and more people actually benefit than ring fencing and wasting vaccines.

Stillgoings if your husband is listed as CEV he can book an appointment via the NHS link.

Fear not @ancientgran, my ever loving husband didn't even ask so all the people in groups 1-5 that would have missed out on one shot are saved.

I do actually know several people who have queue jumped to get vaccinated. They all have openly told everyone they did. This is not in the UK, so slightly different system. They do have priority groups similar to in the UK, but I don't quite understand how they are being managed.

One is healthy, 40 like me, they work in an office role (it is civil service, but they can wfh). She was vaccinated back in December, who knows why. She does have professional connections to the public health department, so probably just knew someone.

Another close friend is a uni lecturer, completely remote teaching, like me hasn't been on campus since March. She was vaccinated early January. Her employer is offering the jab private sector to all employees. She felt really guilty taking it, she's healthy and 30s (she will openly admit this herself). But she figured that she wasn't taking it from anyone else (because it's not like her employer was going to out of the good of their heart offer it to a non-employee who was a higher priority) and getting it was better than not getting it, so she went ahead.

I have another friend who is pregnant, IVF baby, and she has an elective c-section booked for March. Her doctor wanted her to have both jabs before her c-section, again, she's early 40s, health except for the infertility, but her risk factor was needing surgery in 2 months time. It's not even approved technically for pregnant women, but her doctor gave it to her anyway. Again, not UK and a private health care system, so I guess they can do what they want.

So it is definitely happening.

It's daft to get this het up about the very small proportion of vaccines being used in this way rather than discarded unused.

She didn’t queue jump she was offered a left over one. At the end of the day I would rather somebody have it then it go to waste.

Are these people just hanging around outside Doctors surgeries at 6pm? I'd feel so embarrassed to do this, I think I'd actually feel like that bloke who jumped into a raft in the Titanic movie, when it was still meant to be women and children only.

Every vaccine given brings me joy. If someone is mean spirited enough to resent a vaccine being used rather than going to waste then I despair, I really do.

@SummerBlondey

Are these people just hanging around outside Doctors surgeries at 6pm? I'd feel so embarrassed to do this, I think I'd actually feel like that bloke who jumped into a raft in the Titanic movie, when it was still meant to be women and children only.

No. I think they are people who are there for their own legitimate appointment, picking up prescriptions, making appointments etc.

At our hospital they are visitors, workmen, other professionals there on business, people transporting relatives to appointments etc.

@BabyBee93

*@RaspberryCoulis* bet you're a hoot at parties

Unnecessary. Report her comment if you think it breaks the guidelines. I think the OP is being unreasonable too. In fact I'm getting a bit tired of the resentment from people because someone else had the vaccine before them. It's mean spirited. This was a spare dose at the end of the day and the faster vaccination goes ahead the better.

Just back from a day at our local vaccine clinic, doing 75 to 80 year olds. We had very, very few no shows. At the end of the day the poor duty manager was tearing her hair out - she had 8 'spare' vaccines and was ringing round to find people who could get there in 20 minutes (so that the team who'd been there since 8am could go home).

Then one person whose appointment had been several hours earlier turned up, so she had to tell one of the people she rang - as they walked through the door - that no, they weren't going to be vaccinated. Someone else who was meant to have brought a vulnerable person they cared for suddenly appeared - again a couple of hours late - and asked if she could now bring that person (as she hadn't been able to get them out of the house earlier). So the duty manager had to disappoint someone else she'd just phoned. She said it's the most stressful horrible part of her job, geting to 5pm, counting the vaccines left, counting the number of people left to attend, trying to work out how many she can call, seeing if they're in, can they jump in the car and get there now...

It really, really isn't as easy as you think.

@VicSynix thank you for sharing that. I can totally imagine it being like that, which is why I get a bit annoyed with armchair critics who seem to think they can do a better job than those actually administering and organising administration of the vaccine.

A vaccine hub near me received extra doses of Pfizer a while back, because another centre was unable to take them and they were defrosting. They completed a remarkable amount of vaccinations over that weekend.

The staff in charge worked from 8 in the morning right through until 3 the next morning, refusing to go home, refusing to let a single dose be wasted. At 10pm on a Sunday night, some volunteers associated with the hospital were called and asked if they could get to the hospital before midnight to take up spare jabs. I was one of them. The first thing I asked was "is there anyone with greater need that can be asked instead of me who can get there?" And then I committed. Drove 40 minutes to the vaccine hub, stood at the back of a queue for an hour and a half and received one of the last jabs shortly after midnight, then drove home, arriving at 1.10 am Monday morning.

During that time doctors and nurses were scrambled to bring in anyone working on a ward who hadn't been vaccinated yet. And of course they were walked to the front of the queue so that they could quickly get back to work. Which is exactly what you would hope for. Discussions were had about which patients on wards might be disturbed from their sleep to be vaccinated then and there.

Had they run out before they got to me I'd have accepted it graciously and driven home. I was perfectly clear that I was there to be bumped if needs be. As it happens, I was vaccinated, shortly after midnight.

But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the staff were pulling out all the stops to prioritise those they could. And that those of us who were done at midnight would have been accepting of losing out at the last minute. It was never really a possibility to call the clinically vulnerable or elderly late on a Sunday night and ask them to be at the hub before midnight, queuing for 90 minutes, possibly only to miss out anyway. Those people were much safer in their beds, waiting a few days longer and taking up their scheduled appointment in the daytime. Not scrambling at midnight and waiting for hours in a queue.

At a certain point the vaccine goes in arms, or in the bin.