Why isn't more being done to make schools safer?

[pinkpip100]

I've just come across this website and campaign: schools.forhealth.org/risk-reduction-strategies-for-reopening-schools/
It's US based, but the strategies seem pretty universal. Given how important almost everyone agrees it is to enable children to go back to school as soon as possible, and to prevent future school closures wherever possible, why isn't there any investment into this from our government? The sections on healthy buildings and modifying attendance (through rotas, blended learning etc) seem particularly relevant, along with mask wearing in classrooms. I genuinely don't understand why this isn't being prioritised, campaigned for by groups like Us for Them etc. And why aren't the opposition parties pushing for answers on this? Am I missing something?

@pinkpip100

*My school has all these measures too. From the third week in Sept we had year group isolating continuously. Twice we closed fully. * My dc's school was the same - all of the listed measures in place but still multiple isolations and a full closure. My Y9 ds and his whole year group isolated 4 times between Oct and Dec - they were out of school more than they were in. Our area had increasing community levels but not particularly high compared to other areas.

@pinkpip100. My pupils are feeling much more settled having live lessons from home. In the autumn term there was so much disruption, one year group was sent home during the middle of the day. They were surrounded by poorly peers, teachers and family members (5th highest rate of cases in the UK in my area).

I can’t believe some parents still believe magic tape, wearing PE kits to school and opening windows are great safety measures.

What do you suggest they do exactly?

Masks were worn by all kids at son's secondary yet there were still lots of cases?!

@motherrunner - yes it's much better to have consistency rather than constant in/out. My dc moan about being at home but are definitely more settled.

Our cases in the community were at their highest in Sept - Nov. Not one of our schools was closed.
My dd isolated four times due to being a close contact.
Both my dc school had over 40 cases in that period their schools remained open.
My class had six positive cases with students passing it on to members of their family and I was poorly for a long time. My school didn’t close.
It was chaos and certainly didn’t feel safe for anyone.
My dd struggled terribly with the constant isolation. She only managed four days of school between two lots of isolation.

OMG it's not "magic tape", it's 2m isolation zone, the standard may mitigation measure in all workplaces.

Regardless of poo-pooing of these safety measures, the FACT is that in conjunction with school closures when necessary, they worked, evidenced by the fact that teachers are dying at a statistically lower level than their same age non-teacher equivalents.

Anyway I'm leaving this thread since once again I'm being piled on and bullied because I stand for the facts which don't suit some people's agendas.

Cases confirmed through test and trace are falling - but the ONS random testing is not showing the same scale of drop

One age group is showing a massive drop in infection rate in the ONS random testing. Just look at the impact that closing schools has had on the infection rate in secondary-aged pupils. It's incredible how much of a difference it has made and just shows how much transmission was going on there. And yet we were told that it was partying or hanging out at the park and mrsm43s tried to argue that infections would go up in that age group with schools closed.

When did I call it that secondary schools were fucked? 31st October. Why did it take the government so long to catch up?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4065757-Secondary-schools-are-fucked

the FACT is that in conjunction with school closures when necessary, they worked, evidenced by the fact that teachers are dying at a statistically lower level than their same age non-teacher equivalents.

It's obvious that they didn't work given the FACT that secondary pupils were the most infected subset of the population by far and infection rates in that group have dropped massively since they closed.

Teacher death rate isn't a measure of whether school mitigation measures worked and it's odd that someone who supposedly knows anything about maths would claim that it was.

I never understood why the government didn’t throw money at the schools to keep them open.
Outside sink washing, more outside classrooms. Even hand sanitiser. Our secondary didn’t even have soap

Is there data on teacher infection rates? (I feel like I have seen this but can't recall where).

@mrsm43s The things in your list have been applied in lots of schools. Your list heavily implies a private school which tend to have smaller class sizes too.

A 2m box is impossible in my classroom, plus the windows don't open. Students spend most of the day in the classroom, the rest of the measures are small fry.

I never understood why the government didn’t throw money at the schools to keep them open.

They thought they could keep them open with just claiming that they weren't a problem and save themselves money that they could give to their mates for inadequate services instead. There was a lot of covering up going on.

@mrsm43s

Wow, sorry I'd not responded, I've been at work and not noticed this thread moving on..

The measures in place in my children's secondary school were:
Masks in corridors, sanctions if not worn, consistently applied.
Windows open
Teachers in taped off area 2m away from closest desk
Work (and homework) handed in electronically and marked/returned electronically.
Online parents evenings/parent teacher meetings/pta meetings
Clubs restricted to single year group only
Assemblies restricted to single year group only and no singing
Year bubbles, no mixing of children between years
No sharing of resources
School zoned, with zones allocated to just one year group.
Teachers moving between zones, children stay in zone.
Sports fixtures against other schools cancelled
No contact sports
No swimming
Staggered start and leave times for year groups
School buses at half capacity
Individual music tuition moved online
Orchestra cancelled
School production cancelled
Hand gels outside each classroom and children encouraged to use
Reminders re handwashing and social distancing
Zero tolerance of children in school with symptoms
All lessons also simultaneously streamed remotely if any child at home self isolating
Increased cleaning frequency
Wearing in of PE kit on games days so not crammed into changing rooms
Cafeteria staff wearing masks and gloves (think gloves is normal practice in non CV anyway)
And probably a few others that I've forgotten.

Zero cases ever in my children's school, staff or children. SE England.
I feel it was safe, and the school took good precautions to keep it so.

Once community transmission became so high, it was shut (the ultimate mitigating factor), because it was no longer safe, due to the rate of transmission in the community.

Noble giraffes graphs/ info show that rates in children were high in the latter part of the year. Community transmission was high. We needed to shut schools at that point. I've never disputed that.
When rates are down in the community, schools will be safe to reopen again, with mitigation factors such as the ones listed above.

And for primary?

@EvilPea

Your school did not even have soap? Even at a time with no pandemic that does not sound right ?

I am sorry but as a parent I would be sending soap in or doing a fund raiser or something . Sometimes in life you can’t always rely on others to get things right .

[quote Unsure33]@EvilPea

Your school did not even have soap? Even at a time with no pandemic that does not sound right ?

I am sorry but as a parent I would be sending soap in or doing a fund raiser or something . Sometimes in life you can’t always rely on others to get things right .[/quote]
I did, it was not well received.

Yes no soap or sanitiser. Non enforced mask wearing on the bus, people mixing how they liked.
What hope is there?

Assemblies restricted to single year group only and no singing

So 240 teenagers plus adults rammed into a small hall together but they're not singing so you think it's safe? Ffs. Where has common sense gone and hidden?

Assemblies restricted to single year group only and no singing

My spidey senses are that each year group doesn't have anywhere near 240 pupils in the school described.

We had parents kindly sending in soap; it gave rise to a barrage of complaints as some children turned out to be allergic to it! One lot was almond-scented, which was an issue in a nut-free school.
Lots of other parents complained because their kids were also apparently allergic to the school's own soap, that has been the same for years. Made one wonder how much, if at all, they'd been using it before Covid!

My school ran out of soap and cleaning products. We have to use a specific kind from a specific company and they were out of stock for months.

We had pretty much exactly the measures PP has listed. Oh & masks worn in lessons.

Private international school, huge airy classrooms, well used outside space & year groups

One of the issues with rotas is the large number of Key Worker children that are currently in.

On a purely selfish level, rotas would be a nightmare for me (and also for my school) because DH and I are both teachers. We would both have to reduce our days in school if our primary-aged kids were only in on a rota. That's not a problem for us, but it's a big problem for our schools. Other parents want their kids in to be taught by us, but we couldn't be there to teach them.

Even with reduced numbers in schools, parents will still need to expect to have periods of isolation to deal with. My small primary school has 4 bubbles in at the moment. 12 or 13 per bubble, so a similar number to if rotas were introduced. 3 of the 4 bubbles have already had to be closed for isolation because a child tested positive.

OMG it's not "magic tape", it's 2m isolation zone, the standard may mitigation measure in all workplaces.

We have tape markers 2m from the front of the classroom, which should be fine as long as the teacher flattens him/herself against the wall. However in some rooms there is a row of desks entirely in front of the tape.

@noblegiraffe

the FACT is that in conjunction with school closures when necessary, they worked, evidenced by the fact that teachers are dying at a statistically lower level than their same age non-teacher equivalents.

It's obvious that they didn't work given the FACT that secondary pupils were the most infected subset of the population by far and infection rates in that group have dropped massively since they closed.

Teacher death rate isn't a measure of whether school mitigation measures worked and it's odd that someone who supposedly knows anything about maths would claim that it was.

Hear hear

I work in a primary. Since Jan with a fairly large kw bubble we have had two isolations plus three cases where parents have tested positive and children negative or not tested. Total 8 positive cases attached to my bubble since Jan.

As a Crohn's sufferer I have always been incredibly careful, I had sanitiser in my class before it was a thing and my stock of liquid soap and Dettol wipes came in very useful. I have not had COVID even though I am regularly exposed to it. We have had family members of our children get very sick.

Oh as an aside, has anyone noticed norovirus has not been as prevalent this year?

"Anyway I'm leaving this thread since once again I'm being piled on and bullied because I stand for the facts which don't suit some people's agendas."

You made some assertions, which people refuted. How is that "being piled on and bullied?"

Say touch wood and so far immediately staying!

If that holds true in the next months then it's clear that covid is a lot more readily transmissible than the contagious hell that is norovirus which is saying something.

That magic tape also has to be walked across to enter or leave the room in many classrooms. Desks, thoroughfares and bins that have to be accessed within that little tokenistic taped box.

The back of my 2m deep box is 2m from the front row. The front of it is about 50 cm from them.
God bless the magic tape