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Original poster

Covid Denier trys to take Covid patient home saying the virus isnt real

68 replies

Jenasaurus · 27/01/2021 17:00

This is shocking

metro.co.uk/2021/01/26/covid-denier-told-hell-die-as-she-tries-to-take-oap-from-hospital-13965466/

OP posts:
DebbieFiderer · 27/01/2021 17:30

Ridiculous. I think I saw that guy's name/face show up on my Facebook feed earlier, possibly from Surrey Police, but I can't see it anywhere any more.

MercyBooth · 27/01/2021 17:32

That doctor has the patience of a saint.

DebbieFiderer · 27/01/2021 17:35

Yep, found it, Surrey Police have indeed put out a Facebook appeal to find him

Freshprincess · 27/01/2021 17:37

I think this whole thing is really sad. They obviously want the best for the poor man, but have been taken in by all the conspiracy nonsense. The ‘it was downgraded as an infectious disease’ and can you define it is in the deniers playbook.
How can they stand there watch the man gasping for breath and think vitamin C is the answer?

Double gold star for the doctor not telling him to fuck off.

SquishySquirmy · 27/01/2021 17:41

What an embarrassing idiot.

But if the unwell man wants to leave hospital, part of me thinks they should let him, even though he will die. Unless he is judged to lack the capacity to make that decision? I thought that people can refuse treatment? Would free up a bed.

TammyTwoSwanson · 27/01/2021 17:44

What a stupid, dangerous fuckwit.

Cornettoninja · 27/01/2021 17:44

I saw this yesterday and it’s just awful. I dare say the patient does want to go home - who wouldn’t? But he’s very ill and simply can’t receive the same treatment at home. His family seemingly giving him a way out must have been so appealing but it was cruel of them.

If I’m being charitable I think it must be awful to whole heartedly believe that you’re right and no one is listening but in the case of covid I genuinely have no idea how you get to the point you would stand in front of someone receiving treatment and tell their doctors they don’t know what they’re talking about.

Cornettoninja · 27/01/2021 17:48

@SquishySquirmy

What an embarrassing idiot.

But if the unwell man wants to leave hospital, part of me thinks they should let him, even though he will die. Unless he is judged to lack the capacity to make that decision? I thought that people can refuse treatment? Would free up a bed.

It’s very unclear from that exchange who exactly was driving that decision. No one is happy to be in hospital but if those people weren’t there to collect him would he still wish to go enough that he would take himself physically out of the hospital? Would he say what they’re saying?

The patient didn’t appear to show an understanding of what his oxygen saturation actually meant (73% was quoted in the article).

The doctors and nurses duty of care is to the patient and to ensure they understand exactly what their decision means, especially when they’re refusing treatment that stands a high chance of working.

PolarnOPirate · 27/01/2021 17:48

Eurgh god I feel so wretched after watching that, wish I had just lived in ignorance of it. I feel horrendous for the poor doctors but also if he wants to die at home then fine, free up the hospital bed. Although the patient said he wasn’t going to die I think! Ghastly situation all around. And of course the ‘McKenzie Friend’ (?? Never heard of that before!!) is a right nobhead.

QueenPawPaws · 27/01/2021 17:49

People are bonkers
Do they not think doctors would rather give cheap vitamins and zinc if it would work? Or help at all?
I'm on a biologic drug for hives and people say "have you tried an antihistamine?" HmmHmm
No, the dermatologist never suggested that Hmm

Theunamedcat · 27/01/2021 17:53

If they let him go home and he dies isnt that their job on the line?

They can try and get a court order but ffs don't doctors have better things to do right now

willloman · 27/01/2021 17:55

I think they should be charged with wasting Drs and staff valuable time and endangering others on ward.

Freshprincess · 27/01/2021 17:56

So I just read he’s a Mackenzie friend rather than a family member, so I don’t feel quite so sympathetic.

But that people could stand on a critical care ward in the presence of seriously unwell people and wave their conspiracy theory crap at a doctor is shameful.

Motorina · 27/01/2021 17:59

I haven't watched the video (just read the article) but I was a bit surprised. If he's an adult with capacity he's entitled to refuse care and self-discharge, even if it kills him. Doctors don't get to impose treatment - even sensible, life-saving treatment - on unconsenting patients.

(I was not the least surprised to see that the chap involved was mask-exempt. Because of course he was.)

FossilisedFanny · 27/01/2021 18:01

I hate people like this, trying to sound clever but just making an idiot of themselves.
I really hope the patient makes a full recovery because , god forbid , if he dies , the hospital won’t hear the last of it. Obviously, I wouldn’t want him to die under any circumstances.

bellropes · 27/01/2021 18:01

If the patient has mental capacity they should have just let him go. It would free up a bed and get rid of the fuckwits causing trouble on the ward. Win, win.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 27/01/2021 18:02

How can they stand there watch the man gasping for breath and think vitamin C is the answer?

Vitamin C, vitamin D, zinc and some other unspecified thing. Rather than dexamethasone, antibiotics, and a higher-pressure oxygen flow than they could ever manage at home.

It was jaw-dropping and so sad. I know the patient was protesting that he wanted to leave but at 73% oxygen sats I'd be doubting my capacity to make a decent decision.

Calmandmeasured1 · 27/01/2021 18:03

His family seemingly giving him a way out must have been so appealing but it was cruel of them.
I don't believe they were family. The report states that the man is his "McKenzie friend" (an untrained legal advisor).

Nicknacky · 27/01/2021 18:03

@Motorina You really should watch the video, it’s quite alarming.

I agree that if the patient wants to go home and he understands the risks then efforts should be made to allow him to do so, however these halfwits acting like that is NOT the way to do that with dignity and compassion.

Kdubs1981 · 27/01/2021 18:07

@Motorina

I haven't watched the video (just read the article) but I was a bit surprised. If he's an adult with capacity he's entitled to refuse care and self-discharge, even if it kills him. Doctors don't get to impose treatment - even sensible, life-saving treatment - on unconsenting patients.

(I was not the least surprised to see that the chap involved was mask-exempt. Because of course he was.)

It's highly unlikely that a person with 75% oxygen saturation has the mental capacity to make that decision. They need to be able to understand, retain, use and weigh all relevant info to make the decision. It's clear from the fact he doesn't think he will die that he is unable to do the above in the moment. It is assessed on the balance of probabilities in the moment by the clinician. High sensible to conclude he lacks capacity. I suspect a formal capacity assessment may be repeated now, or for all we know had already been carried out prior to this incident.

All speculation, but that's what I'd do

Covidasaurus · 27/01/2021 18:07

THhe problem is that the law is complicated and not all front line staff will be able to know what to do in that exact situation and that moment. It’s complicated by Covid regulations as well.

Motorina · 27/01/2021 18:13

Well, maybe, and maybe not. The presumption is that he has capacity unless established otherwise. And adults with capacity get to refuse care for whatever damnfool reason they like.

I agree a formal capacity assessment (and the doctor having a bit of space to talk things through with their patient without Mr Shouty there) would be prudent.

Unfortunately I can't get the video to play, so am aware that I'm speaking without a full picture. I guess I'm just making the point that the fact that he will die without care isn't a reason to keep him there against his will, if he has the capacity to make that decision.

Calmandmeasured1 · 27/01/2021 18:18

If the patient has mental capacity they should have just let him go. It would free up a bed and get rid of the fuckwits causing trouble on the ward. Win, win.
The patient may not have had capacity as the man trying to take him home referred to the doctor not having power of attorney. Maybe inferring that he did? It wouldn't come into effect if the patient had mental capacity to make his own decisions

I actually wonder:

  1. How the heck these people were able to get onto the ward in the first place, considering visitors are not allowed.
  2. Why security weren't immediately alerted.
  3. Why the police weren't immediately alerted.
  4. Why the police are looking for them now and didn't detain them at the time.
Nicknacky · 27/01/2021 18:19

@Motorina I do agree with your points about patients going home if that is what they wish and it can be done.

It’s unfortunate you can’t see the video as it’s really appealing to watch how little the “visitors” seemed to care about the patient and were more interested in having the doctor provide a definition of corona virus!

britnay · 27/01/2021 18:51

While I wouldn't wish anyone ill, I can't say I would be saddened if he contracted it.