Covid Denier trys to take Covid patient home saying the virus isnt real

[Jenasaurus]

This is shocking

metro.co.uk/2021/01/26/covid-denier-told-hell-die-as-she-tries-to-take-oap-from-hospital-13965466/

Exactly what I thought @britnay

To those saying he has capacity his oxygen levels are very low. I would be involving a senior if I had a patient with sats in the 70s who wanted to self discharge (I’m a junior doctor).

Hypoxia can cause confusion, I would want a second opinion about whether or not he truly has capacity to self discharge. His brain isn’t getting enough oxygen so can he really understand that he’ll die if he leaves?

That's awful

Covid & other things like Qanon have highlighted what a high proportion of the population are extremely stupid, far higher than most people had realised.

What they should of done with this person, is take them on a tour of covid wards and ICU in the hospital, then see how they feel!

Dreadful situation but they can't enforce treatment. On the Ambulance show they often have people refusing to get in the ambulance. The paramedics explain to them what the consequences of their decision will be and make sure that they understand it. Then they close the job and go to help somebody else.

We don't enforce medical treatment.

Arguably, he may not have capacity.

Capacity means acknowledging the risks and saying you'll take your chances, not pretending the risks don't exist. Which, thinking about it, applies to most covid deniers...

@Bookriddle

What they should of done with this person, is take them on a tour of covid wards and ICU in the hospital, then see how they feel!

That doesn’t work with people determined they’re right. If, at this point in the pandemic, someone can stand on a ward full of covid patients trying to take one of them out against the advice of multiple doctors standing in front of them nothing on this earth is going to convince them they’re wrong. There are accounts of people denying covid when they’re the one in hospital with it.

It’s a valuable lesson if you can understand that if you are utterly convinced you’re right and you are completely without doubt you’re probably not.

Covid denial is very much like religion.

He will die says the Doctor. No says some random bloke who has zero medical training ( awaits with bated breath to hear how he has, because he did a bit of first aid when he was in the army once upon a time, he looks the sort ), oxygen sats of 75% on room air are nothing to worry about, we will take him home, give him lots of vitamins and pop him back on his home oxygen and he will be fine and dandy. Non of that witchcraft you call antibiotics and steroids, although I can't help getting the feeling that the patient isn't a stranger to either.

Found this about the mans condition who was in hospital

www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=2pzfw0M9Zpk&fbclid=IwAR0vlVvKp8hdf_QJG1eFoCcfTBl0GhhscYuibhMMqZSagrcofEDX3pxNiEI

I actually wonder:
1. How the heck these people were able to get onto the ward in the first place, considering visitors are not allowed.
2. Why security weren't immediately alerted.
3. Why the police weren't immediately alerted.
4. Why the police are looking for them now and didn't detain them at the time.

Perhaps one of the group entered via a main door(past security guards) , claiming to have an outpatient appointment , to drop personal items off or to pay for parking. They could have let others in via a side door/fire exit. To get on a ward wait for hcp to come or go and follow them in? Iirc the others involved have had fines for failing to wear masks when asked, so must have been apprehended.

@Jenasaurus watching it now, thank you. Sounds like the origin of Shouty Man's beef is that someone in the family had a newborn taken into care.

It's also clear that he knows even less about the law than he does medicine. He's bringing a private prosecution against Hancock, Whitty, and Vallance. That could be entertaining.

[quote Motorina]@Jenasaurus watching it now, thank you. Sounds like the origin of Shouty Man's beef is that someone in the family had a newborn taken into care.

It's also clear that he knows even less about the law than he does medicine. He's bringing a private prosecution against Hancock, Whitty, and Vallance. That could be entertaining.[/quote]
Just looked at his other videos, one where he has recorded the police trying to speak to him, its scary what he beleives in.

Did he say that the poor man has been ventilated ? But its ok because he is on IV vitamin C ?

I had to go to a covid ward twice in the past week or so to drop some clothes off for my mother in law. Major hospital, we were originally told to go to the reception and someone from the ward would come down, actually we were just sent up to the ward.

Both times I could have just walked past the reception desk - the layout means that I am actually be in the hospital before getting to the desk and not possible to tell that I have just come through the main doors. Someone was on the door, but they didn't seem to be paying huge amounts of attention. No-one stopped us as we walked through the corridors and up the lifts, I could wander at ease around and between the 'clean' side and the 'dirty' side. The ward was locked (this seems quite normal) but again no one really challenged us when stood outside the ward - one person (the OT) asked if we needed help, but other than that nothing, had I wanted to I could easily have pushed myself onto the ward after someone else had gone through the door - I think only one person purposely closed the door behind them. I can certainly believe that someone got onto a covid ward unchallenged.

I’m a consultant in intensive care and do this stuff regularly. It is absolutely right that all patients are deemed to have capacity until proven otherwise. Capacity is assessed by being able to understand, retain, weigh up and communicate a decision, a believe me, we go to great lengths to ensure that an individual has a chance of being labelled with capacity. We also deeply respect decisions of autonomous patients with capacity, even if we personally or professionally don’t agree. It is probable that this patient did not have capacity based upon the severity of his hypoxia. Even if he did have capacity, I want to stress that with those saturation’s, he would be unlikely to reach the end of the ward corridor, let alone the entrance to the hospital or home, before he had a respiratory, then cardiac arrest. If he did have capacity to decide that he wanted to leave but medical staff felt it was a genuine risk to his life, emergency legal advice would be sought and usually, the advice is to act in the patients best interests... in this scenario, to keep on oxygen and not to let him stagger down the corridor until he dies.

Horrible situation for all the staff. Equally wondering why security weren’t able to detain that man until police arrived.

But at the same time it wasn't ok because it was done against his and his wifes will ?

@frumpety

Did he say that the poor man has been ventilated ? But its ok because he is on IV vitamin C ?

He said he'd been put on an "intubulated ventilator". He was quite specific: it wasn't just a normal ventilator, it was an intubulated one.

Poor chap at the heart of it. Not only is he very very unwell, this is the family he will (hopefully) be coming home to.

I don't think Youtube man is family is he ? just your helpful random conspiracy theorist who likes to make someone being critically ill all about them ?

He says he has power of attorney (but won't show the hospital the paperwork). And he keeps talking about the patient's wife like he's related to her. But I agree it's far from clear.

Testing NC....

I have dealt with this individual on a professional basis... spotted the name on an online report.
I do not believe the gentleman in the hospital should be removed under any circumstances.

Did he say he personally had power of attorney or did he ask the Doctor if he did @Motorina ? it was a bit hazy in the video ?
Does power of attorney mean you can withdraw or withold treatment for any reversible condition ? So if you had power of attorney could you refuse to allow all treatment for any ailment or accidental injury regardless ?

It's an absolute disgrace. The man was clearly very very sick. But you know nothing a vitamin c tablet wouldnt solve .
The poor staff and patients having to deal with this shit.
I do wonder though, say they had left with the patient. Who would they blame when he had a heart attack in the car on the way home?