Do you feel sorry for Boris?

[User133847]

Seeing the headlines in the papers today and there seems a lot of sympathy for him. The front pages see him looking really forlorn and sorrow regarding the death toll.

When you think a year ago he was planning on ushering in what he deemed as a golden age of Britain. Now 12 months later it's in tatters.

I can understand the sympathy, but wonder whether a Labour PM would be offered the same.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Didn’t you see the news coverage of Hancock turning up at a GP centre for a photo op, only to find out they hadn’t had their delivery and then getting a tongue lashing from the medics in charge?''

No mention of a 'tongue lashing' here just a gp pointing out the very obvious that delivery needs to be reliable. Delivery has occasionally been patchy, surely what you'd expect in such a massive operation. Not sure what the problem is him turning up to offer support? and surely having a photo taken to raise the profile of the roll out is what politicians do.

'Who is 'they' Bunty?'

'Bunty'?

The news reports where the actual GP was interviewed made it clear they’d given Hancock a piece of their mind and that he was incredibly embarrassed that his photo op was ruined. Also you’d think someone in his office might have actually checked all was OK at the site before they turned up. Actually, politicians turning up for photos is disruptive and makes them look more important than they are - just let the bloody staff get on with it and stop mixing IN A PANDEMIC when you don’t need to.

And to say “delivery had been patchy but that’s what you’d expect” - you try getting on the phone to cancel 975 people who you rang yesterday and raised their hopes, without being able to tell them when you can actually book them for

@mouldygrapes I think the general gist is that it's ok to disappoint almost 1000 anxious people because shit happens and Conservatives can't be held responsible.

This is verging into the territory ofTrump being able to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and it not bothering his supporters...

This is verging into the territory ofTrump being able to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and it not bothering his supporters...

Indeed. It really does make you wonder what he’d have to do to make some people admit what an absolute disaster he is.

It really does make you wonder what he’d have to do to make some people admit what an absolute disaster he is.

True, I think some people just can face being proved wrong about voting for him - wasn't as if they weren't warned. I couldn't stand any of the other leadership candidates (and not a Tory so couldn't have voted anyway) but don't believe any of them would have been as bad as Johnson.

Agree. I mean, Gove is clearly a shapeshifter in a human suit, but I think he'd have been more decisive and organised. Name any other PM and I'd have more confidence. Johnson's personal failings are such that he is incapable of leading in the way that others can; the Tories failing is that they know that but they viewed him as enough of a vote-grabber that they were willing to sacrifice their reputation as, essentially, the adults in the room.

See also - the Republican party in the US become a vehicle for Trumpism who are explicity or implicity condoning a domestic terror attack in which some of their colleagues - or themselves! - came close to being murdered.

Gove is such a massive creep but, yes, more of a thinking person, capable of working with others and less disposed to vanity and outright lies.

'This is verging into the territory ofTrump being able to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and it not bothering his supporters...'

Don't be silly.

People are refusing/unable to answer why Johnson is shit, yet the devolved nations with similar statistics, specifically Sturgeon aren't. Scotland has done terribly! only 5m people compare that to other small countries and it's catastrophic.

The pandemic has given folk the opportunity to wang on about 'the tories'. Sadly, without any balance and context (or whataboutery as it's called on here) it all just reads as biased bollocks.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'This is verging into the territory ofTrump being able to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and it not bothering his supporters...'

Don't be silly.

People are refusing/unable to answer why Johnson is shit, yet the devolved nations with similar statistics, specifically Sturgeon aren't. Scotland has done terribly! only 5m people compare that to other small countries and it's catastrophic.

The pandemic has given folk the opportunity to wang on about 'the tories'. Sadly, without any balance and context (or whataboutery as it's called on here) it all just reads as biased bollocks.

Biased bollocks - pot/kettle

You've said nothing constructive whatsoever, you've said nothing to counter any arguments as to how Johnson has done the best job possible.

What you have done is make crass, snobby assumptions about people's education levels. Called people thick, because they don't agree with you.

I must admit that I have found your comments very amusing but it's because of people like you, that blindly follow the Johnson cult, that we are where we are now.

All you've done is try to derail the thread by pointing at Nichola Sturgeon and the other nations, as though that somehow deflects from the carnage Johnson has wreaked over the country. And called people biased oiks.

You're showing yourself up as someone who either knows nothing about what's going on or just doesn't care. According to you and your ilk, the great unwashed don't know what's good for them - innit.

You double down Bunty, I'll get out the popcorn.

And once again, I'll tell you that I did address the Scotland question in an earlier post.

I don't think it is silly at all. 50,000 people have died in the last 3 months, after we had 8 months of the pandemic under our belt, and had abandoned test and trace, etc. You are willing to excuse every single action the government has not taken. They are merely overseeing and administrating deaths; essentially standing with their hands behinds their backs bleating 'schools are safe' when they know full well they are lying, and that those lies will lead to deaths.

That may not be outright murder but it is manslaughter. And give over about 'the Tories'. If a murderous Labour cunt was in power he'd be getting the shit ripped out of him too.

Here we go again, now we’re “silly”. When you have something that adds to the debate and doesn’t mention Scotland, Wales or N Ireland, @GetOffYourHighHorse do come back. This is like having a fly buzzing round your head.

@GetOffYourHighHorse why does anyone in England have to answer for sturgeon? She isn’t our leader what does it prove to compare to another country that has also managed this pandemic abysmally? Is it for commiserations sake? We’d better invite Brazil too. At least Scotland can offer the defence that they’ve no control over their unfortunate geographical location to us with a wide open border.

There are clear examples of countries following the majority scientific consensus and having much better outcomes. To match that we have clear examples of our government not doing that or delaying until they had no choice but to follow recommendations and causing massive upheaval, stress and rises in infections.

I’m at a loss as to how anybody can put that down to luck and hindsight. The new variant in Kent was bad luck, ignoring the continued rise in cases in that area at the end of lockdown 2 was bad management.

Apart from Scotland not having control of her own borders, if you want an idea of how being led by Westminster has fucked us over, here's one from recent years which has bitten us in the arse since March. You think health is a devolved issue? Not if we want to spend money on PPE and/or pandemic planning apparently.

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/1923508/ppe-supply/

'Here we go again, now we’re “silly”'

You're missing the all important context again. My comment was in response to 'This is verging into the territory ofTrump being able to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and it not bothering his supporters...'

Which is indeed silly.

'why does anyone in England have to answer for sturgeon? She isn’t our leader what does it prove to compare to another country that has also managed this pandemic abysmally? Is it for commiserations sake'

Oh no thank god we don't answer to Sturgeon but my point was when all around us are in the same/similar position then there comes a time when surely one of you may understand that things like population density, demographics, compliance and culture are the issues Or, just carry on waving your pitchforks chanting 'we hate Boris!'. Whatever.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'Here we go again, now we’re “silly”'

You're missing the all important context again. My comment was in response to 'This is verging into the territory ofTrump being able to shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and it not bothering his supporters...'

Which is indeed silly.

'why does anyone in England have to answer for sturgeon? She isn’t our leader what does it prove to compare to another country that has also managed this pandemic abysmally? Is it for commiserations sake'

Oh no thank god we don't answer to Sturgeon but my point was when all around us are in the same/similar position then there comes a time when surely one of you may understand that things like population density, demographics, compliance and culture are the issues Or, just carry on waving your pitchforks chanting 'we hate Boris!'. Whatever.

Action taken or not taken by the govt is also one of the issues together with population density, demographic and culture.

And you've failed - again - to address someone's point. My point was that this government is guilty, in full view of everyone, of lying and cheating in a manner that has contributed to many, many deaths.

You're right, it is a silly comparison. Trump was only talking about killing one person.

I understand about population density, demographics, compliance and culture. That’s why I mentioned Malta. It’s a tiny, densely populated group of three islands. It closed its borders in March, despite its main industry being tourism, then it locked down. By mid summer it had eradicated covid. It’s now vaccinated its entire population.

Just imagine if we had:

Closed our borders
Not allowed the Cheltenham Festival
Locked down at the beginning of March
Had enough PPE
Not flooded care homes with untested hospital patients
Not spent £££££ on Nightingale hospitals we couldn’t staff
Had an efficient test and track system
Not paid people to eat out
Not allowed schools to go back for one day after Christmas

All of that was down to an incompetent government and it’s far from an exhaustive list.

Add to that:
Checking people were self isolating
Testing people with symptoms back in March rather than telling people to stay at home.

@GetOffYourHighHorse your defence of Boris Johnson & the govt seems to be centred on the fact that other nations have done just as badly, if not worse, rather than actually pointing to anything they’ve actually done well (save the vaccine rollout but you don’t want to give any credit to the frontline NHS for that).

Let me ask you a direct question just about Boris Johnson. Do you believe what he told the nation when he said “we truly did all that we could”?
There’s genuinely nothing he could have done better or differently?

'Checking people were self isolating. Testing people with symptoms back in March rather than telling people to stay at home.'

They couldn't test everyone in March as we didn't have the capacity. It was targeted testing only once community spread was occurring.

Perhaps if China had been honest and open right from the very beginning and given us more chance to ramp up diagnostics it would have helped.

I do agree with you regarding checking people are isolating. One thing I will criticise them for is the poor enforcement, we only have to read the many threads on here to see compliance was a major factor. They should've maybe locked people in their homes to prevent spread like the Chinese communist party, but then human rights are a priority in this country so that rightly wouldn't have been tolerated.

'Not paid people to eatout'

Didn't make any difference
'Now data published by the Treasury shows areas with the high take up of the scheme also still had the low virus levels between August and October.'

I understand about population density, demographics, compliance and culture. That’s why I mentioned Malta. It’s a tiny, densely populated group of three islands. It closed its borders in March, despite its main industry being tourism, then it locked down. By mid summer it had eradicated covid. It’s now vaccinated its entire population. What an odd example. They haven't eradicated Covid. They've got around 2,600 active cases.

Not paid people to eatout' Didn't make any difference
'Now data published by the Treasury shows areas with the high take up of the scheme also still had the low virus levels between August and October.'

And the rest of the list?

@derxa

I understand about population density, demographics, compliance and culture. That’s why I mentioned Malta. It’s a tiny, densely populated group of three islands. It closed its borders in March, despite its main industry being tourism, then it locked down. By mid summer it had eradicated covid. It’s now vaccinated its entire population. What an odd example. They haven't eradicated Covid. They've got around 2,600 active cases.

They eradicated it last summer.

Data published by the Treasury doesn’t show the full story. I’ll link the full article but here is the salient point

Though the British Chambers of Commerce concluded that Eat Out to Help Out had a “fairly marginal” impact on the hospitality and catering industry, the policy did succeed in spreading the virus. A study by Warwick University concluded that “between 8 and 17 per cent of the newly detected Covid-19 infection clusters can be attributed to the scheme”

www.newstatesman.com/politics/economy/2021/01/why-rishi-sunak-can-t-escape-blame-covid-19-crisis

They eradicated it last summer. Well there must be a second wave there too unless Worldometers is giving false information.
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

So did Scotland, very nearly!

Then guess where cases were seeded back in from...

England.

There was a study done in Scottish universities which discovered this. It was on Politics Scotland last Sunday if anyone wants to check.

So yeah @GetOffYourHighHorse Scotland has done better. But not being able to close our borders is the thing that fucked us.