A really interesting, calm interview with the head of AstraZeneca

[HelloThereMeHearties]

This is really worth reading, to shed some light on the whole sorry EU vaccine mess. It's in English.

Also really interesting about the mechanics of vaccine rollout.

www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

"I am pro-remain too, but I think we should have stayed in the EU and helped reform it. The EU definitely has some issues, and we are seeing them all here."

I don't think there is currently a real ingrained appetite to reform the EU. I think their focus is in trying to keep making it as difficult for the U.K. as possible to dissuade any other country from leaving what is starting to look like a prison. Yes there have been lots of disadvantages about leaving especially for some free movement but the advantage as certainly been in vaccine procurement and when the EU got it wrong they resort to bullying tactics.....which is what Yanis Varoufa the firmer Greek Finance minister said was their bottom line tactic for everything....."we are so big we will just bully you"

If it could have been reformed I would have liked to remain. The problem was when prime minister of both sorties signed treaties that enhanced this bureaucratic iceberg but didn't deliver reform.

But Sakura, the AZ jab being used in the UK is being made in Britain.

The EU is asking for transparency, because it appears that vaccines produced in the EU for the EU market were diverted to the UK. And now the EU is being told that they, and only they, will have their supply reduced. It's natural that there's anger there, but talk of export bans is over the top. The point is transparency.

@wfhconfusion no that is incorrect read what the ceo said. The vaccine made in the UK was never earmarked for the EU. The EU haven’t even approved it yet.

@RedToothBrush

The problem the EU had was if each of the 27 had gone about procurement individually youd now be having the EU - UK spat but between every one of the 27. You would have everyone competing against each other trying to get priority above each country. So the EU said, for the sake of sanity and harmony we need to work together. Which was right. Then they dragged their feet and fucked it up. The net result is a lot of tension and frustration magnified by the uk having ministers almost going out their way to go 'na na naa na naaaa' with thumb on nose waggling fingers. And the EU have lost the plot over it.

The UK haven't actually done anything wrong by the look of it (apart from behave like ungracious gloating twats trying to deliberately wind people up). Neither have AZ

The EU is now trying to deal (without much success) with internal unrest because of the mistakes.

I wandered when you would be running to the EU rescue on this!!

The way the uk has been treated over the last few year I'm surprised Boris didn't want to publicly laugh at them during the press conference yesterday. (the eu themselves, not the poor people of the eu that are suffering because of this)

@Sakura7

The EU is rightly furious that AZ have reneged on their contractual obligations, as anyone else would be in the same situation. The EU paid €336 million to AZ as an investment in their production facilities, in order to avoid these kinds of supply issues. That's entirely separate from the price they're paying for the vaccines themselves.

AZ are only reducing supply to the EU, and are doing so by 60%. When Pfizer had to delay their supply, they did it proportionally, which is the fair and responsible thing to do. It's hardly surprising that the EU is now trying to make up the shortfall. The UK would do exactly the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot, in fact any country would. This is not an attack on the UK.

As for the rollout, that is the responsibility of each member state, not the EU. Some countries have done very well, like Denmark, other like France are much slower. This is partly because they wanted to wait for the AZ supplies for logistical and cost reasons. That was France's call, not the EU's.

There's a lot of smugness here and a great desire to stick the boot into the EU, without looking at the bigger picture. The EU is not perfect, but some of the comments here are ridiculous.

From the linked article, with the AZ CEO, it was made clear to the EU before they signed that:

*vaccine supply was on a "our best effort" basis, and not a guarantee
*The three month delay in the EU committing could lead to disruptions in their supply
*The UK manufacturing/supply chain "were an option for Europe, but only later"
*Significant supplies will be rolled out to the EU, in excess of their 'fair share' by population

If the CEO's account is correct then there is simply no way that AZ have reneged on their contractual obligations, as you claim. It's just not true. If you have evidence to the contrary then please produce it. Preferably with reference to the contract terms that you consider that AZ has reneged on.

The current situation is entirely analogous with the Moderna supply. The UK ordered Moderna late, so will be getting supplies late. The EU ordered Oxford/AZ late, so will be getting supplies late. I don't see any sign that the EU are offering to share their advance order of Moderna with the UK, or anywhere else...

The FT reports that the UK has spent seven times as much per capita securing vaccine supplies as the EU www.ft.com/content/c9bbc753-97fb-493a-bbb6-dd97a7c4b807 (sorry - subscriber only) EU may well be furious. But if their spending had been in line with the UK/US, and if they hadn't wasted three months before ordering then they wouldn't be running into issues with vaccine supplies now.

@Sunflowergirl1

"I am pro-remain too, but I think we should have stayed in the EU and helped reform it. The EU definitely has some issues, and we are seeing them all here."

I don't think there is currently a real ingrained appetite to reform the EU. I think their focus is in trying to keep making it as difficult for the U.K. as possible to dissuade any other country from leaving what is starting to look like a prison. Yes there have been lots of disadvantages about leaving especially for some free movement but the advantage as certainly been in vaccine procurement and when the EU got it wrong they resort to bullying tactics.....which is what Yanis Varoufa the firmer Greek Finance minister said was their bottom line tactic for everything....."we are so big we will just bully you"

If it could have been reformed I would have liked to remain. The problem was when prime minister of both sorties signed treaties that enhanced this bureaucratic iceberg but didn't deliver reform.

Exactly THIS

The EU has spent the last 4 years making it difficult for us to leave. Instead of using that time to convince others why it would be good to stay.

To add, the timeline is at www.itv.com/news/2021-01-26/covid-vaccine-what-is-the-dispute-between-the-eu-and-astrazeneca

The UK committed in May, so AZ started sorting out supply line headaches for the UK then.

The EU delayed three months, which meant AZ was three months later in sorting out supply line headaches for them. Those headaches are now interrupting supply.

Imagine both my sister and I have all we need to bake a cake. I start baking at 10am, which means I have cake for tea. My sister swans around, reads a book, watches some TV, has a bath... She doesn't start baking til 3pm. Why is it fair that she gets half my cake, when her delays are the reason that she has none?

I note that the EU still hasn't approved the vaccine. They still haven't decided whether they actually want the cake at all, but are suing because it hasn't been delivered.

*Hancock boasted that the UK had just vaccinated more people in 3 days than France had since the start of the pandemic.

It was very childish and not professional.*

Perhaps, but a comparison with a nearby country with almost the same population size could also be seen as simply a way of demonstrating how fast Britain was proceeding in its vaccine roll-out.

Also, it was said in a press briefing for a British audience, not at some European event. So if EU leaders are getting all offended by it, I'd say they're the childish ones. Wouldn't they be better off focussing on their own many failures?

Also Sturgeon boasted how much vaccine we had stocked up.

Well, that was silly, as the amount of vaccine the country has is supposed to be kept vague for national security reasons. But hardly a reason for EU knickers to be in a twist.

Its not about running to the rescue of the EU.

Its about realising that 28 wealthy countries all trying to compete with each other for contracts was going to cause problems. And that this is a difficult issue and why the EU went down that road in the first place (and why in theory it was the best plan but why in practice it has gone wrong)

As it goes trying to avoid this scenario is starting to backfire because the EU didn't do a good job of such a crucially important task. And now some of the 27 are starting to do their own thing.

Ive always said the EU is far from perfect and is flawed. Id be being dishonest in saying differently. And ive been very much willing to criticise the EU on this subject. And to say the UK have done well.

Trying to make out im blindly pro-EU in some sort of point scoring exercise is pretty pathetic tbh.

If criticising the vaccine rollout strategy of other countries is "childish and unprofessional" it's worth noticing that the EU were hugely and publically critical of the UK's early approval and rollout.

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-eu/eu-criticises-hasty-uk-approval-of-covid-19-vaccine-idUKKBN28C1B9?edition-redirect=uk

The UK haven't actually done anything wrong by the look of it (apart from behave like ungracious gloating twats trying to deliberately wind people up). Neither have AZ

^^

Look - we are globally all in this together, so we all need to ultimately pull together to help everyone get vaccinated, but you cannot put childish comments at the UK door.

The UK has endured months, years of abusive and patronizing comments from various EU reps and most recently Macron.

Let’s see if the EU approve the vaccine on Friday, this could all be hot air. What it has done has highlighted major issues within the EU.

[quote Motorina]If criticising the vaccine rollout strategy of other countries is "childish and unprofessional" it's worth noticing that the EU were hugely and publically critical of the UK's early approval and rollout.

www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-eu/eu-criticises-hasty-uk-approval-of-covid-19-vaccine-idUKKBN28C1B9?edition-redirect=uk[/quote]
Thats not the childish point. The childish bit is making it into a flag waving exercise deliberately aimed at point scoring against a trading rival by writing immature tweets and being deliberately goady.

Being critical based on scientific reasoning, whilst justifying your own decision in the process is a bit different.

I thought all the manufacturers were having supply problems - Pfizer said they'd be reducing supplies while they build up capacity and I thought AZ was also tweaking the formula to neutralise the Kent strain.

Not sure why the EU is so suspicious about AZ. In any event they've not even authorised it yet. And it is true that some EU member state health ministers were very negative about the UK MHRA approving Pfizer ahead of the EMA (although some of them later changed their mind).

What, like calling people guinea-pigs?

www.euroweeklynews.com/2020/12/30/belgian-pm-covid/

The maturity levels have not been high on either side. They never are.

@redsquirrelfan

I thought all the manufacturers were having supply problems - Pfizer said they'd be reducing supplies while they build up capacity and I thought AZ was also tweaking the formula to neutralise the Kent strain.

Not sure why the EU is so suspicious about AZ. In any event they've not even authorised it yet. And it is true that some EU member state health ministers were very negative about the UK MHRA approving Pfizer ahead of the EMA (although some of them later changed their mind).

They are.

And the issue is anti uk resentment boiling over into being a nice little way to take a swipe and take the heat of poor decision making.

Frankly its now got to the point of bickering children. Both of whom need a smack for different reasons.

The uk is the spoilt brat younger child and the eu is the older kid who got fed up of being poked but should have bloody known better.

Its a fair point to say that the uk has been conducting a live experiment in many respects. We are guinea pigs!

Its a new drug.

The uk has made a calculated gambled on the basis of known facts but there are still a huge number we don't know and are only just finding out.

no that is incorrect read what the ceo said. The vaccine made in the UK was never earmarked for the EU. The EU haven’t even approved it yet.

I'm specifically talking about the AZ supplies that were shipped from the EU plant to the UK in December 2020. The EU now want to see where vaccines produced in the EU are going, so they can determine if they the pharma companies are fulfilling their commitments.

The approval is a separate issue, and the delay is due to the insufficient data provided by AZ to the EMA.

I liked imagining the big bats of cells making vaccine

Frankly, it’s the least they could do, them and their zoonotic pathogens.

But the EU didn't want AZ in December. And made it clear that EU member states weren't to pre-order prior to EMA approval.

Are you suggesting AZ should have warehoused supplies (with what impact on production capacity??) against the possibility that the EU might want them 6 weeks or more down the line?

The uk is the spoilt brat younger child and the eu is the older kid who got fed up of being poked but should have bloody known better

What? I'm personally very unimpressed with the EU and how they are handling the situation. From forbidding it's members placing own orders back in June, to being slow, to not reacting to countries placing their own orders anyway as it was Germany etc.
UK has been great! So, so, so much better..and great call to do it on it's own too! What's "spoiled brat" about it?

I speak as a dual national with family in EU and UK.

The EU contract with AZ states that if there is delay to EMA approval, this could cause delays to supplies.

AZ has cancelled the meeting with the EU that they were meant to have tonight , they'll reply back in writing
www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-cancels-steering-board-meeting-with-eu/

Frankly its now got to the point of bickering children.

From the EU side, absolutely.

But what has Britain done 'childishly' in this instance?

The MHRA is one of the most respected in the world, as well. And, as we discovered, one of the speediest

The MHRA has had the good fortune to be working side by side with the EMA (based in London) allowing it to tap in to the best knowledge in the continent. It will be interesting to see how long we remain “world respected” when we no longer have the expertise of all other EU nations on our doorstep.

People suggest we were able to approve first because we came out of the EU. Another falsehood. Any EU nation with their own regulatory authority could do the same. If individual nations chose not to do so or didn’t have the expertise, that’s their look out, not an EU problem.

The process of EU approval was partly hampered because 27 nation states had to agree, but it should also be noted that the U.K. not being involved may well have slowed it down. The data review is carried out by two states and then the approval is agreed on by member states. If the two nations involved don’t have the same expertise and resources as the MHRA, they would have taken longer to do it. Had the MHRA been involved in that process, the review may well have been much quicker and the EU would have had the vaccine sooner. Are we comfortable that Brexit may have been the cause of the delay in the EU?

In any event, it isn’t about where it started, it is about where it finishes. We are quite uncomfortably near the top of the table for deaths per million population in the world (ahead of most of Europe). Until teething problems in the EU are ironed out, we can’t be confident we will end up having a better vaccination rate either. It’s entirely possible to find other nations outstrip us with their vaccination rates. Any suggestion we are superior to EU or it’s member nations individually in handling this on the basis we did one thing right, is premature to say the least.

It’s a great interview and the explanation of the manufacturing process limitations is excellent. But you didn’t really expect the head of Astra Zeneca to do anything other than (albeit very subtly) point the finger of blame for problems at someone else?